Paradise on Earth

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onewithhim
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Paradise on Earth

Post #1

Post by onewithhim »

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #1961

Post by FaithWillDo »

Dear onewithhim,

You said:
I don't think that word is used at Psalm 37:10,11,29. Because it doesn't make any sense to say, "The meek shall inherit the AGE and find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace," or, "The righteous shall inherit the AGE and live on it forever." You are in error there. These verses refer to the actual earth.

It makes perfect sense when you consider the "sum of God's Word". The "meek" and the "righteous" mentioned in these verses is referring to the "heirs" (First Fruits). Their reward is life during the ages and helping Christ bring in the full harvest of mankind in the final age.

Look at this verse:

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

When properly translated, this verse reads:

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into age enduring punishment: but the righteous into life during the ages.

It is a given that all mankind will be saved by the end of the final age but the "righteous" (heirs/First Fruits) will be blessed and receive life during the ages. In other words, their "days are shortened" and they are harvested early:

Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

The heirs/First Fruits days are shortened because they are harvested early, in this present age, and do not have to wait until the end of the final age like the rest of mankind does to be saved.

By the way, Matthew 24 is teaching on the pathway of salvation for the heirs/First Fruits. It is a end-time prophecy chapter but the end-time it is teaching on is the end-time of their old vessel (child of the devil) and the creation of their new vessel (child of God).

Back to Mat 25:46, there are many, many scriptures which teach that judgment(punishment) is a part of the pathway to salvation which lasts for an "age" and there are many verses that teach that the heirs/First Fruits are saved early, in this present age. By translating the Greek word "aionios" as everlasting/eternal, it presents numerous conflicts with scripture and the true nature & power of Christ. Also, "aionios" is the adjective form of "aion" which means an age of time. An age of time cannot also mean never-ending time. The translators created the "everlasting" definition to support their false belief in eternal punishment/hell.

In the verses you quoted above, the meek and the righteous can only be referring to the heirs/Firstfruits whose reward is "life during the ages". This understanding is in perfect harmony with the overall teaching of God's Word.

Joe

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #1962

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #1963

Post by FaithWillDo »

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #1962]

Dear JehovahsWitness,
You said:
Then it is impossible for God to command Adam not to sin while desiring Adam do just that . God doesn't use sin to achieve his aims, so it contradicts scripture to suggest God wanted Adam to die and used sin to achieve His desire.

Scripture clearly says that God uses "sin/evil" to achieve His good and righteous purposes. Here are just a few verses that I quickly found:

Rom 5:20 But law came in, in order that the offence might abound; but where sin abounded grace has overabounded.

2 Rom 9:21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Judg 9:23 Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech:

1 Sam 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

2 Sam 12:11 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun.

2 Sam 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

1 Chron 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

Job 2:10 But he said to her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. We have also received good from God, and should we not receive evil? In all this Job did not sin with his lips.


Prov 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Ecc 1:13 An experience of evil God has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

Ecc 7:13 Consider the work of God: for who can make that straight, which he hath made crooked?

Isa 19:14 The LORD hath mingled a perverse spirit in the midst thereof: and they have caused Egypt to err in every work thereof, as a drunken man staggereth in his vomit.

Isa 45:5-7 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Isa 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

Lam 3:38 Out of the mouth of the Most High doth not there proceed evil and good?

Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?


In light of these verses, you should rethink your understanding of God and how He works in this creation.

Joe

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #1964

Post by JehovahsWitness »

INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #1965

Post by FaithWillDo »

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #1964]

Dear JehovahsWitness,
The scripture clearly says that God uses sin/evil to accomplish His "will":

Acts 4:26-28 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

Read this verse carefully. God the Father caused "Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel" to do what His "counsel determined before to be done". Don't you believe it was sinful for those mentioned in the verse to crucify Christ? But they did so because the hand of God and His counsel determined that it should be done. God caused them to sin to accomplish His "will".

This is no different than God causing Adam to sin to accomplish His purposes, too.

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

There could be no greater event in history than Christ going to the cross and it happened because God caused "Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel" to sin and murder Him. It was God's counsel that He determined beforehand that it should be done.

Paul even said this:
1Cor 2:7-8 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

The princes of the world who crucified Jesus are "Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel". The Word of God is taught in a "mystery" so that the truth of who Christ was would remain hidden.
If they had known the truth, they would have never crucified Christ. But since it was God's "will" for Christ to be crucified, God kept the truth hidden from them so that they would sin. God caused it all to happen.

Joe

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #1966

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to FaithWillDo in post #1965]

I think it would behoove you to goback over what JehovahsWitness has said in their last couple of posts. I agree wholeheartedly with that. Your interpretation of Scripture conflicts with what JW presented there, and scriptures don't contradict themselves.

.

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #1967

Post by FaithWillDo »

onewithhim wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 7:41 pm [Replying to FaithWillDo in post #1965]

I think it would behoove you to goback over what JehovahsWitness has said in their last couple of posts. I agree wholeheartedly with that. Your interpretation of Scripture conflicts with what JW presented there, and scriptures don't contradict themselves.
Dear onewithhim,
I responded to what JehovahsWitness said in his posts. The verses which He presented do not support what He stated. I explained all that to him.

The "paradigm" you are using to understand scripture is "of this world". You are still seeing Jesus in the flesh. When a believer receives the Latter Rain of the Spirit, it causes great earthquakes, lightning, thunder and trumpets. It is a monumental event which occurs "within" the person. It changes their "paradigm" which is "of this world" to a new "paradigm" that comes directly from Christ. They put off their carnal mind and put on the mind of Christ. This happens solely by the work of Christ at the time they receive the Latter Rain (second coming of Christ).

This event is described in Revelation chapter 18 and the first 6 verses of chapter 19. Once this event happens, the marriage supper of the Lamb occurs and the second coming of Christ occurs within the believer who has just been converted and "born again".

Now, within the believer, the sun is darkened and the moon is turned to blood. They no longer receive their "truth" from this natural world. They now receive it spiritually from the "brightness" of Christ's appearing to them.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Acts 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

Like the verses in Rev ch. 18 & 19, these verses above are teaching on the same event. This is conversion. It is the destruction of a child of the devil (our created spiritual state) and the birth of a child of God.

Joe

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #1968

Post by onewithhim »

FaithWillDo wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 12:19 pm
onewithhim wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 7:41 pm [Replying to FaithWillDo in post #1965]

I think it would behoove you to goback over what JehovahsWitness has said in their last couple of posts. I agree wholeheartedly with that. Your interpretation of Scripture conflicts with what JW presented there, and scriptures don't contradict themselves.
Dear onewithhim,
I responded to what JehovahsWitness said in his posts. The verses which He presented do not support what He stated. I explained all that to him.

The "paradigm" you are using to understand scripture is "of this world". You are still seeing Jesus in the flesh.
Any even surface reading of my posts will reveal that I do not consider Jesus still in the flesh. He is a powerful spirit person in heaven at his Father's right hand. "He is the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, the one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see." (I Timothy 6:15,16)

.

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #1969

Post by FaithWillDo »


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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #1970

Post by JehovahsWitness »

FaithWillDo wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 12:19 pm
Like the verses in Rev ch. 18 & 19, these verses above are teaching on the same event. This is conversion.
Revelation 18 in symbolic terms speaks of the destruction of false religion ( "Baylon the Great"). "The marriage of the lamb " is when all the 144, 000 members of Gods heavenly government finally get to heaven. (Revelation 19).
Under Christs direction these (144,000) will then lead the angels to destroy Satan's system and usher obedient humans into a new world (not a new literal planet they will still be living on this our planet earth) but a new human society where those on this earth will live with no more pain or suffering.

Image
Humanity will at long last return to the conditions enjoyed in the garden of eden! Good news don't you think?




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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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