The 144,000 in JW theology

[Wootah]

My understanding only 144,000 JWs go to heaven in total over the sum of human history.

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... to-heaven/

Is that correct?

There are 9 million JWs worldwide (rounded up).

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... w-many-jw/

Will the vast majority of them not go to heaven and be annihilated? What happens to the JWs that don't make the 144, 000?

[2timothy316]

[Replying to tam in post #350]

Since you believe:

Scripture is absolutely not the sole source of divine revelation.

Why would I discuss any Biblical with someone who thinks such a way? I don't want to hear about 'divine revelations' that you think have been revealed to you, because to me they are just opinions not 'divine revelations'. I'm not interested in what 'your living christ' tells you and to debate something only has been revealed to you, which to me is just an opinion is a waste of time.

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #350]

Since you believe:

Scripture is absolutely not the sole source of divine revelation.

Why would I discuss any Biblical with someone who thinks such a way?

Um... are you claiming what I said is false? Because if scripture was the sole source of divine revelation, we would have no scripture. If scripture was the sole source of divine revelation, there would be no Revelation (the book of Revelation). Then of course there are all the accounts of Christ speaking to His sheep after His death and resurrection and ascension, AND, his promise that His sheep would listen to His voice.

What is written backs up what I said.

So that can't be the reason you do not wish to discuss something from the bible with me.

I don't want to hear about 'divine revelations' that you think have been revealed to you, because to me they are just opinions not 'divine revelations'. I'm not interested.

I simply posted the context of what Christ said regarding the times of the Gentiles.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[2timothy316]

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #350]

Since you believe:

Scripture is absolutely not the sole source of divine revelation.

Why would I discuss any Biblical with someone who thinks such a way?

Um... are you claiming what I said is false?

I'm saying I don't believe the way you believe, so I have no interest in talking with you because of the way you use scripture and what you add with it. Namely that you think divine revelation comes to you. I don't believe that comes to anyone except Bible writers. We are fundamentally on opposite sides and neither one us is going to give ground. So what's the point of debating with someone that thinks they receive divine revelation and I'll never accept that?

Perhaps you should reread the Sola Scriptura thread. There is no need to have this conversation again.
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=38194

The reason you will not accept 144,000 in JW theology is because of your view of where divine revelation comes from. I don't have to debate you to know the end result will be a complete waste of time.

[tam]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #350]

Since you believe:

Scripture is absolutely not the sole source of divine revelation.

Why would I discuss any Biblical with someone who thinks such a way?

Um... are you claiming what I said is false?

I'm saying I don't believe the way you believe, so I have no interest in talking with you because of the way you use scripture and what you add with it. Namely that you think divine revelation comes to you. I don't believe that comes to anyone except Bible writers. We are fundamentally on opposite sides and neither one us is going to give ground. So what's the point of debating with someone that thinks they receive divine revelation and I'll never accept that?

I did not bring up divine revelation. You did. I simply provided the context for the words of Christ from what is written, regarding the times of the Gentiles. You chose not to discuss that, but instead have chosen to tell me in multiple posts that you are not going to discuss this with me.

Post 343 (previous page):

viewtopic.php?p=1061471#p1061471

Perhaps you should reread the Sola Scriptura thread. There is no need to have this conversation again.
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=38194

Then why did you bring it up?

The reason you will not accept 144,000 in JW theology is because of your view of where divine revelation comes from. I don't have to debate you to know the end result will be a complete waste of time.

I don't accept the 144 000 from JW theology because it is not true. Divine revelation would not affect the 144000 doctrine of the WTS if indeed that doctrine was true. But it is not. For many reasons stated here and in other places.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[2timothy316]

[Replying to tam in post #354]

Thanks, your opinions have been noted.

[tam]

Peace to you all,

Some might consider the last page or two to have been a waste of my time, but the content and context in post 343 stands... and I don't think the attempted diversion and deflection will be lost on at least some of the readers.


Peace again.

[JehovahsWitness]

.... what was supposed to have happened in 1914 (the return of Christ) did not happen.

It is no secret that many of Jehovah's Witnesses prior to 1914 had expectations that were not met. In that they were no different from Peter and the other faithful Aposles (compare Acts 1:6). Since then we have come to a greater understanding of what True Christians, should actually expect during these last days, as well as come to an more accurate understaning of the difference between Christs presence (parousia) and his "second coming" ("the return or Christ").




JW





Prophetic events, see below


GLOSSARY OF TERMS [END TIMES]

The Gentile times The 2,520 year period during which God had no royal representative on earth. It runs from the Babylonian destruction of Jeusalem the beginning of the Messianic kingdom in 1914.

1914 : The year according to bible prophecy Christ began ruling as King of the Messianic kingdom

God's kingdom/the Messianic Kingdom: God's heavenly Government made headed by Christ + 144,000 co-rulers

last days /end times : The period from 1914 to Harmageddon

Christ's presence [greek: parousia]: The period during which Christ rules as king of the Messianic kingdom before he destorys the wicked. It corresponds to "the last days".

THE "first" resurrection The calling of those of the 144,000 who have died To take up their heavenly office; starting in 1914 and continuing to just after the beginning of the Great Tribulation

"this generration" [Mat 24]: the generation that would witness both the beginning and the end of the last days.

the second coming/ The Return of Christ: The climatic event of the Great Tribulation when Christ judges the wicked

Harmageddon/Armageddon : When Christ returns in Kingdom power to war with God's enemies: destroying the wicked and "imprisoning" Satan

THE Great Crowd [Rev 7:9] : Earthly survivors of the Great Tribulation

The Millenium / Judgement "day" : The idyllic 1000 year period that runs from just after Harmageddon to the release of Satan

FURTHER READING : https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/publication/r1/lp-e/nwtstg

[tam]

Peace to you,

.... what was supposed to have happened in 1914 (the return of Christ) did not happen.

It is no secret that many of Jehovah's Witnesses prior to 1914 had expectations that were not met.

And what were those expectations based upon? Who/what gave them those expectations?

In that they were no different from Peter and the other faithful Aposles. Since then we have come to a greater understanding

Have you though? Or have you just been given different understandings? Considering that the former expectations were not met?



Peace again.

[JehovahsWitness]

Peace to you,

.... what was supposed to have happened in 1914 (the return of Christ) did not happen.

It is no secret that many of Jehovah's Witnesses prior to 1914 had expectations that were not met.

And what were those expectations based upon? Who/what gave them those expectations?

They got them by the same means Peter and the Apostles got their unmet expectations. You know your bible, where did the Apostles go wrong (see Acts 1:6)?




JW




RELATED POSTS

What did Jehovahs Witnesses expect to happen in 1914? [Onewithim]
viewtopic.php?p=1044836#p1044836

Why are Jehovah's Witnessses are happy they change their beliefs!
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 04#p865304

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES , FALSE PROPHETS and ...FAILED PREDICTIONS,

[tam]

Peace again to you,

Peace to you,

.... what was supposed to have happened in 1914 (the return of Christ) did not happen.

It is no secret that many of Jehovah's Witnesses prior to 1914 had expectations that were not met.

And what were those expectations based upon? Who/what gave them those expectations?

They got them by the same means Peter and the Apostles got their unmet expectations. You know your bible, where did the Apostles go wrong (see Acts 1:6)?

You mean the question they asked, Acts 1:6?

Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”


What about the words that Christ responded with?

“It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”


So I'm not sure what you're trying to say? Perhaps you could just answer the questions?

What were those expectations based upon? Who/what gave them those expectations?


Because it sounds as though someone is passing the buck (not you, per se, but someone taking the lead in the religion). Instead of - yes, we gave you people false expectations based on our erroneous understanding... - the false teaching has been swept under the rug with a shrugged off, 'some had false expectations'.



Peace again.