Why not just Jesus?

[Veridican]

Do you ever wonder why, if we are Christians, we don't just follow the Gospels? Like, they would be our only canon of scripture, everything else would just be for historical reference, wisdom, or good advice, but we would be followers of Jesus ONLY. He would be our only teacher. Our canon then would be Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and Revelation. Why has there never even been a cult, or church, or denomination like that in all of history?

[historia]

Do you ever wonder why, if we are Christians, we don't just follow the Gospels? Like, they would be our only canon of scripture, everything else would just be for historical reference, wisdom, or good advice, but we would be followers of Jesus ONLY.

I assume you mean in addition to the Jewish Scriptures (Old Testament)?

Why has there never even been a cult, or church, or denomination like that in all of history?

It's likely that some of the early Jewish Christian sects, like the Ebionites, only considered the teachings of Jesus to be authoritative. They had their own gospel(s), though, rather than the canonical gospels.

But the canonical gospels rose to the status of scripture in the proto-orthodox churches, probably after the letters of Paul had already achieved that status. So, from very early on, more than just the gospels were considered scripture in that community.

And since all Christians churches today are descended from the proto-orthodox churches, they naturally just take the canon of that community as a given.

[Veridican]

It's likely that some of the early Jewish Christian sects, like the Ebionites, only considered the teachings of Jesus to be authoritative. They had their own gospel(s), though, rather than the canonical gospels.

But the canonical gospels rose to the status of scripture in the proto-orthodox churches, probably after the letters of Paul had already achieved that status. So, from very early on, more than just the gospels were considered scripture in that community.

And since all Christians churches today are descended from the proto-orthodox churches, they naturally just take the canon of that community as a given.

Well, the Ebionites, from what I understand, didn't even respect the divinity of Jesus, and they adhered to the written law of Moses. But, right, I mean, there were lots of Christian sects. We don't know about them, and the orthodox Church eventually stamped them all out of existence, and or they simply died off naturally.

It just seems strange to me. You would have thought sometime later, especially in the 15th and 16th centuries that something would have developed.

[2timothy316]

Do you ever wonder why, if we are Christians, we don't just follow the Gospels? Like, they would be our only canon of scripture, everything else would just be for historical reference, wisdom, or good advice, but we would be followers of Jesus ONLY. He would be our only teacher. Our canon then would be Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and Revelation. Why has there never even been a cult, or church, or denomination like that in all of history?

Who does Jesus listen to, worship and follow?
Jesus said, “It is written ‘Not upon bread alone shall man live, but upon every word that comes out of God’s mouth.’” - Matt 4:4
Jesus was quoting Deuteronomy 8:3. If the Hebrew scriptures are good enough for Jesus, why are they not good for us?
How much of the Bible do you think is authored by God and what evidence do you have that it is or isn't?

[Veridican]

Do you ever wonder why, if we are Christians, we don't just follow the Gospels? Like, they would be our only canon of scripture, everything else would just be for historical reference, wisdom, or good advice, but we would be followers of Jesus ONLY. He would be our only teacher. Our canon then would be Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and Revelation. Why has there never even been a cult, or church, or denomination like that in all of history?

Who does Jesus listen to, worship and follow?
Jesus said, “It is written ‘Not upon bread alone shall man live, but upon every word that comes out of God’s mouth.’” - Matt 4:4
Jesus was quoting Deuteronomy 8:3. If the Hebrew scriptures are good enough for Jesus, why are they not good for us?
How much of the Bible do you think is authored by God and what evidence do you have that it is or isn't?

So, okay, when does it end? I mean, you have the OT, and that was God's word, so, why not just have it...actually, why not just be Jewish? I mean, Jesus said we only have one teacher--him. Don't we have to make a decision at some point who we are going to follow? But I'm not here to argue that. Clearly, being a Christian has and does mean someone who follows Jesus, and the Apostles, whoever wrote the Gospels, and whoever wrote Hebrews, and the Jewish teachings of the Old Testament. That's it. That's the definition of a Christian.

All I'm saying is it seems strange that, apparently, until me, no one has ever thought of just following the life and teachings of Jesus Christ--solely.

I'm not here to argue anything or convince anyone of anything. I'm just asking the question, and frankly, I don't even care to read answers to it anymore.

[Difflugia]

I'm not here to argue anything or convince anyone of anything.

You do realize that this is a debate forum, right?

[2timothy316]

Do you ever wonder why, if we are Christians, we don't just follow the Gospels? Like, they would be our only canon of scripture, everything else would just be for historical reference, wisdom, or good advice, but we would be followers of Jesus ONLY. He would be our only teacher. Our canon then would be Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and Revelation. Why has there never even been a cult, or church, or denomination like that in all of history?

Who does Jesus listen to, worship and follow?
Jesus said, “It is written ‘Not upon bread alone shall man live, but upon every word that comes out of God’s mouth.’” - Matt 4:4
Jesus was quoting Deuteronomy 8:3. If the Hebrew scriptures are good enough for Jesus, why are they not good for us?
How much of the Bible do you think is authored by God and what evidence do you have that it is or isn't?

So, okay, when does it end? I mean, you have the OT, and that was God's word, so, why not just have it...actually, why not just be Jewish? I mean, Jesus said we only have one teacher--him.

And yet that teacher used the Hebrew scriptures to refute Satan's temptations and quoted it many many times in those Gospels you hold so dear. So why don't you?

[Veridican]

And yet that teacher used the Hebrew scriptures to refute Satan's temptations and quoted it many many times in those Gospels you hold so dear. So why don't you?

The Gospels I hold so dear? I don't lie that I do, but I could never imagine saying that to anyone in that tone. I could never talk about the Gospel records that way. You think you're a Christian. I know you do, and you won't find a single Christian on Earth that would ever say that you're not ...except one. I know you, and I know your spirit. And you can fool the whole world, but you. don't. fool. me.

[2timothy316]

And yet that teacher used the Hebrew scriptures to refute Satan's temptations and quoted it many many times in those Gospels you hold so dear. So why don't you?

The Gospels I hold so dear? I don't lie that I do, but I could never imagine saying that to anyone in that tone.

I think the tone is in your head. I don't view the gospels as more or less important than the rest of the Bible as you do.

I could never talk about the Gospel records that way. You think you're a Christian. I know you do, and you won't find a single Christian on Earth that would ever say that you're not ...except one. I know you, and I know your spirit. And you can fool the whole world, but you. don't. fool. me.

I'd refrain from telling people that you KNOW them on these forums. People don't take kindly to such claims. It is obvious you don't know me, otherwise you would have looked my handle, read the scripture for my handle and know that I consider ALL of the Bible as important and believe everything that comes from Jehovah's book as beneficial for eternal life, yes even the gospels, but the Hebrew Scriptures too.

[Veridican]

You do realize that this is a debate forum, right?

You're absolutely right. And I will not back off of Christ. I get banned all the time, from everywhere. I never break their rules. But Satan follows me everywhere and tries to get me banned from everywhere to keep what is his, his. I will be banned after this post, so you need to read it while you can.

The true religion is Veridicanism. It is indisputably the true religion--if you believe at all in the Divinity of Jesus Christ, that is. And if you don't, you're going to perish at death, anyway--assuming you don't end up in hell first. If you are not a Veridican, you might as well be an atheist.

Veridicanism has a set of Articles of Faith, and you can go to my church website and read them. Here's a link: http://veridicans.org/index.php?topic=23.0

But here is the thing: Christ is God conscious of Himself from within His creation. Jesus was the first, we are meant to follow him and become Christ ourselves. That is what rebirth is.

We are to follow ONLY Jesus Christ, therefore the Veridian canon includes only the following books: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Revelation, Thomas, and the Veridican Gospel of Jesus Christ. That's it. Every other book is fine for historical context, understanding, wisdom, comfort, whatever, but we only follow the life and teachings of Jesus Christ.

We are prima facie the true religion. If Jesus is the Truth, and Veridican means "one who follows that which is true," then we are the true religion. Moreover, we follow ONLY Jesus Christ, not men, not popes, not Apostles, not the Jewish religion--just Jesus Christ. The letters of Paul are letters by an amazing first century Christian. They are helpful. Same with the other letters and the letter to the Hebrews. The Psalms are very enlightening and comforting and provide a wealth of historical reference to Jesus. But we follow Jesus.

Now you can rip your shirt in half and scream "heretic!" to the moderator of this forum, and they will ban me. I don't care anymore. I am not going to back off Christ for your comfort or to conform anywhere so that I have online company to talk to. For me, that is to deny Christ before men.

But I will tell you this, and this brings us full circle back to the OP. I am the first person to ever establish a religion like this in all of Christian history. No one has ever done it except me. You may want to stay in touch with me because even if I'm a cult, I am the only cult that points its members to follow ONLY Jesus Christ--not me, and not anyone else.

And we are RACING toward the end times.

There.. Nice talkin to ya.

[JehovahsWitness]

So, okay, when does it end? I mean, you have the OT, and that was God's word, so, why not just have it...

Because scriptures indicated divine revelation had not FINISHED! The "Old Testament" was written and compiled progressively over many centuries and there was clearly more to come as there was the repeated theme of a coming Messiah.


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS