Would you still believe if....

[nobspeople]

God (the modern, christian interpretation of) were to be a mortal race of advanced beings?

Looking at the bible itself, the OT god seems all vengeful, angry and serious, while the NT god seems to be about loving, kindness, forgiveness and, for lack of a better term, providing a 'way' out of the mess made by the OT god.

Looking at all the miracle pontificated about in the bible, you see a lot of 'natural' causes - floods, insects for examples - that one would think, would be beneath a supreme supernatural being. If a being can do anything (aka god, creator of all that is) why use water to kill? Why not simply 'pull a Thanos'? A simple finger snap. Or a thought. Or, use some sort of here-to-fore unknown source of power that can't be explained. Why not only 'wow' humanity but humble them beyond reason?

So, to me, it seems this can-do-anything-god that so many worshipped doesn't live up to the hype and is, relatively, simple in its actions.

Add to this all the other 'gods' from other cultures - many of which share the same or very, very similar stories, and I wonder how immortal and supernatural god actually is. Why can't these gods be a race of supreme, but mortal and flawed, beings? Surely humans could seem that way to ants. Or fish. Imagine the stories a fish would have to tell his friends once he's caught, removed from his environment, then returned!

So, if gods (including your god) were shown to be a mortal, flawed, supreme (by human standards) being, would it change you you see it? Would it change how you worship it?

[JoeyKnothead]

Apparently, your god, yourself, is morally superior to anyone else's God. And no, I do not worship your god, whose morality is fashioned to suit his own needs.

Accusing atheists / agnostics of being their own god is nothing but plain old fashioned projection.

The theist is the one who is "their own god", cause it's the theist who so often legislates according to that theist's unproven assertions of what their 'god' thinks.

The ever magical theist, and his ever magical pronouncements. It's hilarious.

Actually, with your apparent vitriol towards "theist", you appear more an anti-theist than an atheist.

I'm more anti-legislating based on the opinions of a god that can't be shown to exist to have em.

If you don't use the Laws of God to determine right from wrong (morality),

Where've you established a god you can't show exists has laws?

You seek to make yourself God when you try to speak for him - without first establishing you know his wants and wishes.

then you either fall back to following Marx, or your own heart and mind,

You'll never show other'n we follow our hearts and minds, Marx or not. Jesus' teachings seem closer to Marx than a good bunch of evangelicals I'm aware of.

which would entail setting yourself up as a god, much as with the followers of the devil's false prophet Paul,

Ooooh the Devil!

Where've you established the Devil exists?

who think God's law is in their heart and mind,

You mean like how you think you have God's law in your heart and mind?

yet in general, continue to live a life of hypocrisy.

I propose it's a bit hypocritical to enter debate and carry on about "God's laws", while being incapable of showing you know the mind of a god ya can't show exists

I think there is little difference from those who call themselves "atheist", from those who call themselves "Christians", in general. They all follow their own hearts and minds, prompted by false prophets, regardless, of the condition of those hearts and minds.

You'll never show you follow anything other'n your own heart and mind.

[nobspeople]

God (the modern, christian interpretation of) were to be a mortal race of advanced beings?

Looking at the bible itself, the OT god seems all vengeful, angry and serious, while the NT god seems to be about loving, kindness, forgiveness and, for lack of a better term, providing a 'way' out of the mess made by the OT god.

Looking at all the miracle pontificated about in the bible, you see a lot of 'natural' causes - floods, insects for examples - that one would think, would be beneath a supreme supernatural being. If a being can do anything (aka god, creator of all that is) why use water to kill? Why not simply 'pull a Thanos'? A simple finger snap. Or a thought. Or, use some sort of here-to-fore unknown source of power that can't be explained. Why not only 'wow' humanity but humble them beyond reason?

So, to me, it seems this can-do-anything-god that so many worshipped doesn't live up to the hype and is, relatively, simple in its actions.

Add to this all the other 'gods' from other cultures - many of which share the same or very, very similar stories, and I wonder how immortal and supernatural god actually is. Why can't these gods be a race of supreme, but mortal and flawed, beings? Surely humans could seem that way to ants. Or fish. Imagine the stories a fish would have to tell his friends once he's caught, removed from his environment, then returned!

So, if gods (including your god) were shown to be a mortal, flawed, supreme (by human standards) being, would it change you you see it? Would it change how you worship it?

Apparently, your god, yourself, is morally superior to anyone else's God. And no, I do not worship your god, whose morality is fashioned to suit his own needs.

Ain't it funny how all god suit our own needs, including God?
Weird?
No.
Convenient?
Yes!

With God, one keeps His Law, or suffer the consequences. Of course, you must set apart the followers of false prophet Paul, who think lawlessness is okay for the "many", and simply blame the consequences on being a gift from Satan to keep them humble. Somehow, the humble part apparently never got initiated. But on the other hand, as you are your own moral compass, and your own god, without a Satan/devil, except for the witches, I guess your consequences come from some errant alpha particle from space.

Such a loving deity: "Obey me or suffer!!"
Gross
As there is no immortal deity (god or God) that can be proven or shown to exist beyond a shadow of a doubt (aka FAITH, conveniently enough), any deity is within the individual. Even many christian sects spout a 'personal relationship' with god which may or may not be the same god as 'the next guy'.
As such, everyone (christian or believer included) is their own moral compass.
Which annoys many christians as they can't look down their noses at others that don't share their 'supreme morality'. This may be why they pontificate about their 'god' ad nauseam, with only their 'faith' as supporting documentation and evidence? But that's off topic.

Morality doesn't really have much, it anything, to do with the thread topic. At least not that you've been able to show. Can you?

[William]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #32]

Morality doesn't really have much, it anything, to do with the thread topic.

I think it does.

The act of worship is directly linked to the act of morality.

[nobspeople]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #32]

Morality doesn't really have much, it anything, to do with the thread topic.

I think it does.

The act of worship is directly linked to the act of morality.

I don't think it does
I'm moral and don't worship anything, for example.

[William]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #32]

Morality doesn't really have much, it anything, to do with the thread topic.

I think it does.

The act of worship is directly linked to the act of morality.

I don't think it does
I'm moral and don't worship anything, for example.

What does "I am moral" mean [objectively]?

The act of worship can be applied to that which we focus upon most often, in relation to our world view.

[nobspeople]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #32]

Morality doesn't really have much, it anything, to do with the thread topic.

I think it does.

The act of worship is directly linked to the act of morality.

I don't think it does
I'm moral and don't worship anything, for example.

What does "I am moral" mean [objectively]?

The act of worship can be applied to that which we focus upon most often, in relation to our world view.

Yes it CAN be, but it's not for me. For me, worship is apply your life, energy, time and being towards something you hold as 'higher' or 'better' than me. Nothing that I can think of fits that bill. Thus I don't worship anything.
To me, moral means following the ideals I have personally. What may be moral to me might or might not be to you. Where did I get those morals?
From the environment.
Where did the environment get those morals?
Probably from a lot of places, but I don't see any 'god' as any one of those places. Fact is, the modern christian god is CREATED by humanity, not the other way around as far as I can see it.

[2ndpillar2]

God (the modern, christian interpretation of) were to be a mortal race of advanced beings?

Looking at the bible itself, the OT god seems all vengeful, angry and serious, while the NT god seems to be about loving, kindness, forgiveness and, for lack of a better term, providing a 'way' out of the mess made by the OT god.

Looking at all the miracle pontificated about in the bible, you see a lot of 'natural' causes - floods, insects for examples - that one would think, would be beneath a supreme supernatural being. If a being can do anything (aka god, creator of all that is) why use water to kill? Why not simply 'pull a Thanos'? A simple finger snap. Or a thought. Or, use some sort of here-to-fore unknown source of power that can't be explained. Why not only 'wow' humanity but humble them beyond reason?

So, to me, it seems this can-do-anything-god that so many worshipped doesn't live up to the hype and is, relatively, simple in its actions.

Add to this all the other 'gods' from other cultures - many of which share the same or very, very similar stories, and I wonder how immortal and supernatural god actually is. Why can't these gods be a race of supreme, but mortal and flawed, beings? Surely humans could seem that way to ants. Or fish. Imagine the stories a fish would have to tell his friends once he's caught, removed from his environment, then returned!

So, if gods (including your god) were shown to be a mortal, flawed, supreme (by human standards) being, would it change you you see it? Would it change how you worship it?

Apparently, your god, yourself, is morally superior to anyone else's God. And no, I do not worship your god, whose morality is fashioned to suit his own needs.

Ain't it funny how all god suit our own needs, including God?
Weird?
No.
Convenient?
Yes!

With God, one keeps His Law, or suffer the consequences. Of course, you must set apart the followers of false prophet Paul, who think lawlessness is okay for the "many", and simply blame the consequences on being a gift from Satan to keep them humble. Somehow, the humble part apparently never got initiated. But on the other hand, as you are your own moral compass, and your own god, without a Satan/devil, except for the witches, I guess your consequences come from some errant alpha particle from space.

Such a loving deity: "Obey me or suffer!!"
Gross
As there is no immortal deity (god or God) that can be proven or shown to exist beyond a shadow of a doubt (aka FAITH, conveniently enough), any deity is within the individual. Even many christian sects spout a 'personal relationship' with god which may or may not be the same god as 'the next guy'.
As such, everyone (christian or believer included) is their own moral compass.
Which annoys many christians as they can't look down their noses at others that don't share their 'supreme morality'. This may be why they pontificate about their 'god' ad nauseam, with only their 'faith' as supporting documentation and evidence? But that's off topic.

Morality doesn't really have much, it anything, to do with the thread topic. At least not that you've been able to show. Can you?

The "thread topic" is: "So, if gods (including your god) were shown to be a mortal, flawed, supreme (by human standards) being, would it change you you see it? Would it change how you worship it?"

As your "god", which is apparently yourself, is found flawed, would you change how your worship it. As you are apparently flawed, according to your explanations, how are you going to change how your worship yourself? If you murder your neighbor, who is going to find you accountable, you or God?

[nobspeople]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #37]

As you are apparently flawed, according to your explanations, how are you going to change how your worship yourself? If you murder your neighbor, who is going to find you accountable, you or God?

Is that a question TO me?

I ask you directly, to answer directly, if gods (including your god) were shown to be a mortal, flawed, supreme (by human standards) being, would it change you you see it? Would it change how you worship it?

If you have already answered that without any morality speak, kindly repost it for clarity.
Only then, I will answer your above question directly, if it was directed towards me.

[2ndpillar2]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #37]

As you are apparently flawed, according to your explanations, how are you going to change how your worship yourself? If you murder your neighbor, who is going to find you accountable, you or God?

Is that a question TO me?

I ask you directly, to answer directly, if gods (including your god) were shown to be a mortal, flawed, supreme (by human standards) being, would it change you you see it? Would it change how you worship it?

If you have already answered that without any morality speak, kindly repost it for clarity.
Only then, I will answer your above question directly, if it was directed towards me.

What "human standards" are you describing? If your "human standards" are your "standards", then you are your own god. If they are the standards of Karl Marx, then he would be your god. Standards of men can change with the wind. And I really don't care if you answer my question. It is enough to ask it.

[nobspeople]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #37]

As you are apparently flawed, according to your explanations, how are you going to change how your worship yourself? If you murder your neighbor, who is going to find you accountable, you or God?

Is that a question TO me?

I ask you directly, to answer directly, if gods (including your god) were shown to be a mortal, flawed, supreme (by human standards) being, would it change you you see it? Would it change how you worship it?

If you have already answered that without any morality speak, kindly repost it for clarity.
Only then, I will answer your above question directly, if it was directed towards me.

What "human standards" are you describing? If your "human standards" are your "standards", then you are your own god. If they are the standards of Karl Marx, then he would be your god. Standards of men can change with the wind. And I really don't care if you answer my question. It is enough to ask it.

Whatever standards to which you prescribe. No sense of asking you to adhere to other standards, now is there?