Why not just Jesus?

Exploring the details of Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Veridican
Banned
Banned
Posts: 179
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:36 pm
Location: Mississippi
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 26 times
Contact:

Why not just Jesus?

Post #1

Post by Veridican »

Do you ever wonder why, if we are Christians, we don't just follow the Gospels? Like, they would be our only canon of scripture, everything else would just be for historical reference, wisdom, or good advice, but we would be followers of Jesus ONLY. He would be our only teacher. Our canon then would be Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and Revelation. Why has there never even been a cult, or church, or denomination like that in all of history? :?:
All for Christ and only for Christ! :wave:

2timothy316
Prodigy
Posts: 3434
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:51 am
Has thanked: 98 times
Been thanked: 249 times

Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #51

Post by 2timothy316 »

tam wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:02 pm
Which BTW where does Jesus get his direction?
Christ gets His direction from His Father.

He is the Word of God.

Peace again to you.
So Jude can't get direction what to write from Jesus which was given to him by God?
Last edited by 2timothy316 on Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
tam
Savant
Posts: 5642
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 260 times
Been thanked: 230 times
Contact:

Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #52

Post by tam »

Peace again,

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #51]

I don't understand why you ask a question that was answered in the previous post.

You asked:

So how do you know that what Jude wrote didn't come from Jesus?

I responded:

Even if he did, that would not make Jude God's Word.

God's Word is Christ. In your scenario, Jude would only have been relaying what he received FROM the Word of God (Christ).
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

2timothy316
Prodigy
Posts: 3434
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:51 am
Has thanked: 98 times
Been thanked: 249 times

Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #53

Post by 2timothy316 »

tam wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:52 pm Peace again,

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #51]

I don't understand why you ask a question that was answered in the previous post.

You asked:

So how do you know that what Jude wrote didn't come from Jesus?

I responded:

Even if he did, that would not make Jude God's Word.

God's Word is Christ. In your scenario, Jude would only have been relaying what he received FROM the Word of God (Christ).
So Jude is wrong even if he got what to write from Jesus? So when does it cease to be God's word? What evidence do you have to say that Jude was not relaying what Jesus told him to write? Is Jude a liar?

User avatar
tam
Savant
Posts: 5642
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 260 times
Been thanked: 230 times
Contact:

Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #54

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
2timothy316 wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:52 pm
tam wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:52 pm Peace again,

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #51]

I don't understand why you ask a question that was answered in the previous post.

You asked:

So how do you know that what Jude wrote didn't come from Jesus?

I responded:

Even if he did, that would not make Jude God's Word.

God's Word is Christ. In your scenario, Jude would only have been relaying what he received FROM the Word of God (Christ).
So Jude is wrong even if he got what to write from Jesus? So when does it cease to be God's word?
Please point out where I said Jude would be wrong even if he wrote what he received from Christ.

The fact of the matter is that even the scriptures point to Christ as being God's Word. God's Word (Christ) is ALIVE.

As to what you added after I responded:
What evidence do you have to say that Jude was not relaying what Jesus told him to write? Is Jude a liar?
I did not make a comment on those things at all.


Peace again to you.
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

2timothy316
Prodigy
Posts: 3434
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:51 am
Has thanked: 98 times
Been thanked: 249 times

Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #55

Post by 2timothy316 »

tam wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:57 pm Peace to you,
2timothy316 wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:52 pm
tam wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:52 pm Peace again,

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #51]

I don't understand why you ask a question that was answered in the previous post.

You asked:

So how do you know that what Jude wrote didn't come from Jesus?

I responded:

Even if he did, that would not make Jude God's Word.

God's Word is Christ. In your scenario, Jude would only have been relaying what he received FROM the Word of God (Christ).
So Jude is wrong even if he got what to write from Jesus? So when does it cease to be God's word?
Please point out where I said Jude would be wrong even if he wrote what he received from Christ.

The fact of the matter is that even the scriptures point to Christ as being God's Word. God's Word (Christ) is ALIVE.

As to what you added after I responded:
What evidence do you have to say that Jude was not relaying what Jesus told him to write? Is Jude a liar?
I did not make a comment on those things at all.


Peace again to you.
So Jude can speak God's Word and be correct in everything he wrote. Gottcha.

Avoice
Sage
Posts: 927
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:41 am
Location: USA / ISRAEL
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 29 times

Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #56

Post by Avoice »

[Replying to tam in post #48]

Be careful. You have credited a massage to God being the one who spoke it. It doesn't say God said the following:

"This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to Him."

In truth...it's an unidentified voice talking about an unidentified person. The unidentified voice in the Christian testament was described. The witnesses said It thundered and sounded like an angel. None said it was God and they were there! And God isn't an angel. And so, there is testimonies as to this voice. And that evidence does NOT suggest it is God speaking. I know...you want it to be God. But that's not how truth works

God DID tell us to listen to someone. That is Moses

User avatar
tam
Savant
Posts: 5642
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 260 times
Been thanked: 230 times
Contact:

Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #57

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
Avoice wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:54 am [Replying to tam in post #48]

Be careful. You have credited a massage to God being the one who spoke it. It doesn't say God said the following:

"This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to Him."

In truth...it's an unidentified voice talking about an unidentified person.


It is about Christ. He is the Son in the message. That is most certainly the context.

From the baptism:

Just as [Jesus] was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the spirit descending on him like a dove. 11 And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.” Mark 1

As soon as [Jesus] was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.” Matt 3

Then another time, with just 3 of the apostles and Christ, from the transfiguration:

After six days [Jesus] took Peter, James and John with him and led them up a high mountain, where they were all alone. There he was transfigured before them. 3 His clothes became dazzling white, whiter than anyone in the world could bleach them. 4 And there appeared before them Elijah and Moses, who were talking with [Jesus].

5 Peter said to [Jesus], “Rabbi, it is good for us to be here. Let us put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.” 6 (He did not know what to say, they were so frightened.)

7 Then a cloud appeared and covered them, and a voice came from the cloud: “This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to him!”

8 Suddenly, when they looked around, they no longer saw anyone with them except [Jesus]

9 As they were coming down the mountain, [Jesus] gave them orders not to tell anyone what they had seen until the Son of Man had risen from the dead. 10 They kept the matter to themselves, discussing what “rising from the dead” meant.


So we can see from the context that this was about Christ. We also know that Christ said His Father is the One whom the Jews claimed as their God.

Whether a person is able to accept that or not is a different matter.
The unidentified voice in the Christian testament was described. The witnesses said It thundered and sounded like an angel. None said it was God and they were there! And God isn't an angel. And so, there is testimonies as to this voice. And that evidence does NOT suggest it is God speaking. I know...you want it to be God. But that's not how truth works


That is a different incident (from John 12).

“Now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour. 28 Father, glorify your name!”

Then a voice came from heaven, “I have glorified it, and will glorify it again.” 29 The crowd that was there and heard it said it had thundered; others said an angel had spoken to him.


Even there, the context is clear. Except perhaps if one does not want to accept it.
God DID tell us to listen to someone. That is Moses
And Moses said to listen to the One whom God would raise up from among their brothers (from Deuteronomy 18).

[The LORD] your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your fellow Israelites. You must listen to him. 16 For this is what you asked of [the LORD] your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly when you said, “Let us not hear the voice of [the LORD] our God nor see this great fire anymore, or we will die.”

17 [The LORD] said to me: “What they say is good. 18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites, and I will put my words in his mouth. He will tell them everything I command him.





Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

Avoice
Sage
Posts: 927
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:41 am
Location: USA / ISRAEL
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 29 times

Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #58

Post by Avoice »

[Replying to tam in post #57]

Nonetheless. It only alludes to it.

If one had to testify with 100% certainty that it was God speaking they could not say yes.

And the transfiguration story. Once again, the voice doesn't say who it's talking about.

"Then a cloud appeared and covered them, and a voice came from the cloud: “This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to him!” Suddenly, when they looked around, they no longer saw anyone with them except Jesus"

NOTICE THAT IT SAYS THEY WERE COVERED VY A CLOUD WHEN THE VOICE SPOKE (again with the voice).
AND SINCE THEY ONLY SAW JESUS WHEN THEY LOOKED THEY ASSUME THATS WHO'S THE VOICE WAS TALKING ABOUT. Rediculous!

A voice..a voice...again with the voice. No where does it identify that voice.

SO...WHO DO WE LISTEN TO? DO WE HAVE ANY VERSE THAT IS CREDITED TO GOD SPEAKING THAT ANSWERS THIS QUESTION?
YES. AND ITS THE LAST THING GOD TOLD US.

"Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments."

Your belief is based on allusion. Mine is based on the word of God. God said listen to Moses. Or is God a liar?

User avatar
tam
Savant
Posts: 5642
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 260 times
Been thanked: 230 times
Contact:

Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #59

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
Avoice wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:38 pm [Replying to tam in post #57]

God said listen to Moses.
Though you ignored it from my last post:

And Moses said to listen to the One whom God would raise up from among their brothers (from Deuteronomy 18).

[The LORD] your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your fellow Israelites. You must listen to him. 16 For this is what you asked of [the LORD] your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly when you said, “Let us not hear the voice of [the LORD] our God nor see this great fire anymore, or we will die.”

17 [The LORD] said to me: “What they say is good. 18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites, and I will put my words in his mouth. He will tell them everything I command him.




As for the rest, if you are content to believe that this was a random voice, from a random father, speaking about a random son, to a random group of people... well, that is your choice. But clearly Christ is the Son in those accounts. See also 2Peter 1:17, because those who heard that voice credited that voice with the Father (with God):

For we did not follow cleverly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord [Jesus] Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 17For He received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to Him from the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” 18And we ourselves heard this voice from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

Avoice
Sage
Posts: 927
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:41 am
Location: USA / ISRAEL
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 29 times

Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #60

Post by Avoice »

[Replying to tam in post #59]

You've got to be kidding. It is talking about Joshua. I'll give my evidence if you want it. I want your evidence
Where in the Hebrew Scriptures does it indicate that it refers to Jesus?

Post Reply