Sex Before Marriage is NOT a sin in the bible!!

Debating issues regarding sexuality

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revjoel2013
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Sex Before Marriage is NOT a sin in the bible!!

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Post by revjoel2013 »

I study the bible and found that premarital sex is not a sin in the bible. This sin is created by Church doctrine. The early church twisted the word fornication to mean sex before marriage. The word fornication actually means having sex with a pagan temple prostitute. The early church fathers redefine the word fornication to mean all sex outside of marriage. This is how the doctrine that premarital sex is a sin started.

Why Should Christians Engage in Premarital Sex / Sex Before Marriage!!!

http://youtu.be/4lSv9kPIx0Q

What does fornication mean in the Bible; Latin Greek and Hebrew or

http://youtu.be/UVAI2TTOcgM[/img]

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Miles
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Re: Sex Before Marriage is NOT a sin in the bible!!

Post #51

Post by Miles »

nobspeople wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:31 pm
Miles wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:26 pm
nobspeople wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:30 am
Miles wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 4:55 am
brunumb wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:16 pm
EarthScienceguy wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:28 pm [Replying to brunumb in post #44]
ETA: I wonder how many so-called good Christians miss those good old days when they could drag the fornicators out into the street and chuck rocks at them.
I bet a whole lot of children wish that premarital sex was still at 8% because the divorce rate increased along with the percentage of those engaging in premarital sex.

https://vancouversun.com/news/staff-blo ... orce-study

“Despite their strong pro-family values, evangelical Christians have higher than average divorce rates — in fact, being more likely to be divorced than Americans who claim no religion”
Well, aren't they the ones having all the premarital sex?





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I knew a guy going to seminary back in the day. I saw his girlfriend walking to a department store one day. When I asked her why, she said she was going to buy sexy lingerie for him when he gets home as they had sex every weekend he was home from seminary.
Future preacher right there!
But hey: at least he wasn't molesting boys I suppose.
All god's Children need sex . . . . eventually.


.
Do they, though?
Some priests that enter their 'profession' as virgins, we're told, usually abstain their entire life if they die as priests.
And Mr. Popey Pope... he's abstaining? Inquiring minds, and all of that.
That's the story they want you to buy when actually . . .


................................... Image


And who's more devout than priests. (rhetorical question O:) )


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EarthScienceguy
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Re: Sex Before Marriage is NOT a sin in the bible!!

Post #52

Post by EarthScienceguy »

[Replying to Miles in post #51]
And who's more devout than priests
.

The 8% today who are following God's word and abstaining until they are married, despite what society says.

The Bible does give advice to those that cannot control themselves.
But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
During the Reformation, one of the first indications of a priest's conversion was his marriage to a woman so he would not burn with passion.

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Re: Sex Before Marriage is NOT a sin in the bible!!

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Post by Miles »

EarthScienceguy wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 4:17 pm [Replying to Miles in post #51]
And who's more devout than priests
.

The 8% today who are following God's word and abstaining until they are married, despite what society says.
Ah, I believe that it would take far more than simply abstaining from sex to make one more devout than a priest.

But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
Unless, that is, your burning passion is for those of the same sex, in which case if you're a guy "Christians get to kill you. (Leviticus 20:13).


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Re: Sex Before Marriage is NOT a sin in the bible!!

Post #54

Post by brunumb »

EarthScienceguy wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 4:17 pm The Bible does give advice to those that cannot control themselves.
But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
During the Reformation, one of the first indications of a priest's conversion was his marriage to a woman so he would not burn with passion.
What great advice, marry so you can have sex. Maybe that accounts for the high level of unhappy marriages, sexual abuse and divorce. You can always rely on the Bible to get it right....... not!

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Re: Sex Before Marriage is NOT a sin in the bible!!

Post #55

Post by Falling Light 101 »

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We see also that in the entire Old Testament and New - never do we find anyone ever physically recorded as having been stoned to death for adultery.

It just was never recorded in the Bible.

It may or possibly or probably did happen - however, there is not a single recorded instance or incident that tells that anyone was ever stoned to death for adultery.


The point to the law was orbiting around disease prevention, I believe that stoning to death simply did not occur in the way that people imagine or envision.

The Law was given at the time of Moses, there were diseases, plagues and viruses that were killing thousands of people in just a single day and at this time - yes - there were people recorded as having been killed for committing immoral sex acts and literally infecting others and bringing diseases and plagues into the encampment of the Israelites.

But after this catastrophic event in Moses's lifetime and by him the law was given - however, after Moses we can not point to a single incident where anyone was killed for sexual immorality.

Also, after Moses was gone, the following prophets after him, did not repeat this law.

The prophets after Moses did not declare that the death penalty was important for breaking sexually related blood crimes. Even the homosexuals were never killed. the kings simply told them to leave the area and they were put out of the land.

This law was given during a time period in which diseases and sicknesses were prevalent and spreading to thousands of innocent people and the law was given specifically to prevent people infecting others with sexually transmitted diseases.

If a woman was dishonest and lying about her BLOOD related activities and had had blood transitions with other males and was lying to another man about this - then the law was there to protect a man who would otherwise be a victim of a possible disease or sickness .

A woman who had sexual relations with other men would then lie about this and proceed to marry a man who has 4 or 6 other wives - and this potential sickness or disease would be spread to him and all of his other multiple wives and all of their future children would also become sick and diseased before they knew that the new wife was lying about her BLOOD CRIME....


blood crimes are real -

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Post by ProtoGlenn »

Wootah wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:58 am Hi revjoel2013,

Since Jesus defines adultery as looking at another person lustfully as a sin then it seems fairly simply to understand that sex before marriage would be a sin.
Jesus does not define adultery as looking at someone with "lust". The term "lust" has many definitions and probably so in Greek, as even Paul states that "lust" meant "covet". And the scripture Jesus would then be referencing would be to not covet your neighbor's wife, or any of their possessions.

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Re: Sex Before Marriage is NOT a sin in the bible!!

Post #57

Post by ProtoGlenn »

YahDough wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:40 pm
DanieltheDragon wrote:
YahDough wrote: [Replying to post 1 by revjoel2013]

Trying to redefine the truth of God's laws for self-justification (or any other reason) is fools business. I'm reminded of the verse in the Bible about people with "itching ears."

2Tm:4:3: For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

Or even worse, people who turn God's grace into a licence to sin.

Jude:1:4: For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Christians will always be stuck redefining the bible that's just the nature of trying to interpret bronze age theology in the modern era what the OP was doing was not redefining but rather trying to clarify what the bible actually says vs what is being taught.
Trying to justify acts of sin does not "clarify" God's message of salvation. It confuses it. To compromise God's grace with private interpretations of what God teaches us through the Holy Ghost is wrong. There is nothing "bronze age" about right versus wrong in the eyes of God.

Heb:13:8: Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
The Bible clarified that "sin" was the transgression of the law. Jesus defined the law as loving God 1st, and loving your neighbor as you would yourself. This is broken down into sins against God, blasphemy, and sins against your neighbor. Sin is literally the intent to do wrong against someone. This is why adultery is defined as taking another's spouse, and idolatry would be to follow another god. This is why Paul states that all things were lawful unto him, but that he wouldn't fall under the power of any. There is no action that is a "sin" by itself. It requires the intent to do wrong. Some actions are ONLY done with intent to do wrong, so don't think I'm saying that you can perform any actions you want, just because "actions" aren't sins.

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Re: Sex Before Marriage is NOT a sin in the bible!!

Post #58

Post by ProtoGlenn »

EarthScienceguy wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 4:17 pm [Replying to Miles in post #51]
And who's more devout than priests
.

The 8% today who are following God's word and abstaining until they are married, despite what society says.

The Bible does give advice to those that cannot control themselves.
But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
During the Reformation, one of the first indications of a priest's conversion was his marriage to a woman so he would not burn with passion.
The context of Paul's letter on 1 Corinthians, is whoredom/fornication(sexual idolatry). If you do the research, Corinth was the patron city of Aphrodite, who was infamously worshipped through prostitution by harlots. This is why Paul brought up the laws of Leviticus 18, while also stating that those things were "lawful" to him. It isn't sex that Paul is concerned about, it is the idolatry. Defiling the temple of God(your body) with someone who worships another god, is akin to blasphemy and thus unforgivable. This is why God said the penalty of such was death. And why the story of Judges 19 has the concubine killed and dismembered, while the offending city was burned to the ground. It wasn't that the concubine did wrong(she was forced in the matter), it was that her body was defiled by the sons of Belial.

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Re: Re:

Post #59

Post by Wootah »

ProtoGlenn wrote: Wed Jun 15, 2022 6:41 pm
Wootah wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:58 am Hi revjoel2013,

Since Jesus defines adultery as looking at another person lustfully as a sin then it seems fairly simply to understand that sex before marriage would be a sin.
Jesus does not define adultery as looking at someone with "lust". The term "lust" has many definitions and probably so in Greek, as even Paul states that "lust" meant "covet". And the scripture Jesus would then be referencing would be to not covet your neighbor's wife, or any of their possessions.
I think my point still stands.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Post by collin88x »

Wootah wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:58 am Hi revjoel2013,

Since Jesus defines adultery as looking at another person lustfully as a sin then it seems fairly simply to understand that sex before marriage would be a sin.
No. Adultery means dealing with at another's spouse. He's referring to looking at another man's wife with lustful eyes as being adultery. You can look at a single woman with lustful eyes and sex technically is the marriage.

Adultery means different things for man and woman. As back then even polygamy was a righteous custom kept in Israel. So adultery didn't mean a man sleeping with another woman outside of his wife. As to say a man should only have one woman.

Yes prostitution is adultery. But a man having multiple wives is not.

Adultery meant a man takes his neighbors wife. Its a very disrespectful and divisive thing to try to do to another man.

Like what king David did with Bathsheba. That was adultery though king David had multiple wives at the time AND concubines (which pertaining to the Israelites kingdom? pretty much meant low end wives of the other nations outside of Israel, who were there mainly to serve the Hebrew wives and serve the husband sexually. As he could deal with his concubine how ever he pleased.)

David had this. He has atleast 12 Hebrew wives and an unspecified number of concubines (women servants of the the other nations/lower end wives)

David was not in the midst of sin for this. As God blessed David to have this.

As it is written

2 Samuel 12:1-9 (KJV) "And the LORD sent Nathan unto David. And he came unto him, and said unto him:

"There were two men in one city; the one rich, and the other poor. The rich man had exceeding many flocks and herds: But the poor man had nothing, save one little ewe lamb, which he had bought and nourished up: and it grew up together with him, and with his children; it did eat of his own meat, and drank of his own cup, and lay in his bosom, and was unto him as a daughter."

(He's referring to Uriah the Hittite and his wife Bathsheba "the poor" and King David the "rich man".)

"And there came a traveller unto the rich man, and he spared to take of his own flock and of his own herd, to dress for the wayfaring man that was come unto him; but took the poor man's lamb, and dressed it for the man that was come to him."

(David taking Bathsheba "adultery")

"And David's anger was greatly kindled against the man; and he said to Nathan, As the LORD liveth, the man that hath done this thing shall surely die:"

And he shall restore the lamb fourfold, because he did this thing, and because he had no pity.

And Nathan said to David, you are the man.....

Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;

And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's WIVES (plural) into thy bosom (heart), and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.

(God said he gave David King sauls WIVES. meaning they were now called by his name and they belonged to him. Meaning intimacy when he wanted among many other things. God said if that wasn't enough he would've given him more. (Referring to the women because God's saying you could have all the women you need why take this man's wife? That's all he has and loved. But this proves that God is not against polygamy (yes I'm aware of the new testament and the husband of one wife statement)

that's a long story. At that time Israel was under governmental rule of the Romans who made it a law of mongamous marriages only. That tradition of one wife started with the greco-roman empire. And Israel were under curses from God and he commanded that they honor the laws of the land they dwell in whoever their overseers are.

In God's kingdom though polygamy will be back as a righteous custom.

Isaiah 4:1 (KJV) "And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.

Isaiah 4:2 (KJV) "In that day shall the branch of the LORD be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely for them that are escaped of Israel."

Pretty much during armageddon women will be throwing themselves at Israelites in bunches because they have shame they don't have a husband. Even declaring they'll take care of themselves just give me your name (and giving a woman your name means you then own her meaning intimacy is a righteous practice between the 2 as the marriage bed is undefiled)


"Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken "his wife" to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon."

So the sin of David wasn't him having multiple wives and concubines. David's sin was taking another man's wife. Which is adultery. When he had his own. A man can have 10 wives his own. But if he sleeps with a woman who bares the name of another man? He has committed adultery/fornication.

Fornication means unlawful sexual practices according to God's word.

Like homosexuality, lesbianism, beastiality, multiple partners at once which creates same sex interaction. Prostitution, cheating (taking another man's woman or the woman sleeping with another man whose name she isn't called by/adultery) these are fornication.

Adultery does not mean the same for man and woman.

For a man he is an adulterer when he steals another man's wife (lays with her)

For the woman adultery for her is she sleeps with another man whose name she isn't called by. Even if she's sharing a husband with 6 other wives. They 6 can only sleep with that one husband intimately. (One at a time ofcourse cuz orgies is fornication and unlawful) it had to be strictly one on one. And the husband was commanded to give his wife's their rightful access to their husband meaning he had to give it up when one of them wanted it. And make time to please them all.)

But if one of the wives gets tempted and decides she wants some new fresh "meat".... Well. She has now committed adultery and the man she slept with is commiting adultery also.

But when Christ says if you look at a woman lustfully you have committed adultery in your heart. He was referring to looking at another man's wife. A single woman you may look until your hearts content. Go make see if you can make her your wife and knock the lining out of her you know what until for the rest of your days lol marriage bed undefiled.

Now he warns against just desiring a woman for pleasure because it is wise for your sake to judge her heart first and see if she has what it takes to be the wife of a Godly man and perform her duties and help nurture your family.

But if she has those qualities? Then you can feel free to desire her every day as it is written:

Proverbs 5:18-19 (KJV) "Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.
Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love."

So yeah I'm starring Lazer eyes through every inch of single woman's body lol lol

men are conquerors.... We are supposed to see, like and go and get. You create your own world. Everyone else is just living in it is the mentality.

You tell her what time it is what you're about and take it or leave it. You believe in polygamy but won't practice it because it's constitutionally unlawful in the country. But if you're going to be wife, then you need to understand this this and that going forward. Hold them accountable that way in the future they can't put a smut on your name because you were this way from the beginning no secrets. And you've told her if she don't like it? She don't have to deal with you. But as long as she is? That's spiritual consent and agreement with your ways so therefore you have no shame going forward. (Because you know how women can get...... Indecisive, unnecessary attitudes, lazyness and think men are their personal slaves. Nope. A godly man knows how to whip a good woman into shape.

He gives her what she has deserved and respects and loves her yes. But holds her accountable against her word. And vice versa. She has the right to constructively criticze you when you may be going off the path (we're humans) that's why communication is key and say what you mean and mean what you say. The relationship will survive if that's a normal practice among the 2.

God wants the man to run the house. He says don't even think about trying to lead a church if you can't even get your own house in order.

God
Christ
Church
Man
Woman
Children

That's the order. No "equals". Yes there's fairness and respect but there is no "equals".

Women of today have the government to protect them though so it's hard to lead a Godly style marriage today because women feel they don't have to listen and follow their husbands. They essentially act like the husband. And make the man serve them when it's supposed to be the other way around.

Men today give women way too much praise and credit just to "get some". And it's like no... Trust me the best feeling in the world is when you live your truth as a man and a woman submits to it and gives you genuine intimacy as a result of her respect and love for you as her "lord".

That's a wife ....That's a blessing from God as it is written.

Who keeps her house clean, and in order, nurtures her family, gives affection and intimacy freely to her husband as he pleases (within reason) with little to no excuses or at the least few and far in between, or not a "habbit of".

I kind of got off track a little bit.

But the point was adultery in your heart was referring to desiring another man's wife.

Because it's gonna be like this if you're with me. Many will pass but many will consider. The ones who consider are they you go for.

But I'm conclusion Christ was referring to lustfully checking out another man's wife and you know it's his wife. You're plotting on her and trying to swoon her and being disrespectful to her husband your neighbor

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