Generating Messages

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Generating Messages

Post #1

Post by William »

Hi.

I started this thread to share something which I find fascinating and would like some critique re the system I use to generate messages as I share these in this thread.

I would like to discuss the scientific value in terms of both subjectivity and objectivity to do with the way in which the messages are generated [to be explained] and perhaps how the reader interprets the message generated [assuming they see any message] and other related subjects branching from this.

I will also be using as evidence, the way in which words corelate with math, such as;

Generating Messages = 188
What Is Friendship
Story-Tellers

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Re: Generating Messages

Post #21

Post by Bust Nak »

First of all, good call moving the discussion here, it was off topic for that thread.
William wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:10 pm If true randomness existed, then we would not expect this to be the case...
Who is this we? I would expect this from a non-deterministic world. So what exactly do you mean by true randomness? Things like objects suddenly falls upwards, water changing into metal for no reason, every day item phrasing into and out of existence? If so then I agree that such randomness do not exist.

But a world as described by scientists, where it is ruled by the classical clockwork laws of nature, tempered by the new, seemingly random quantum mechanics, would be able to produce number-values of word-strings just fine. How can you tell that the quantum mechanics' seemingly random part, isn't truly random?
This leads us to examine the idea that mind is involved, since we know mind is capable of recognizing coherent formations in apparently random situations.

Since that is the case, we can rule out mindlessness.
Looks like classic affirming the consequent fallacy to me: If mind then non-random, we see non-random, therefore mind.
I would rather do the science.
Doing science would be an example of trying to match claims to objective reality. You asked me what other ways there are other than matching claims to reality.
Mindlessness is already ruled out due to the incontrovertible evidence re the number-values of word-strings.
Well, that is being disputed right now. So lets not just take that evidence as incontrovertible for granted.
That the Message Generating Process is consistent in its coherency, no matter the type of selection system used to create them, adds supporting evidence that mindlessness through random accident is proven false.
Or it's just dumb luck? Sum the total of a fair pair of dice, repeat a few times and you would very quickly develop a peak at number 7. How do you know you are not just looking that the equivalent of rolling two dice?

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Re: Generating Messages

Post #22

Post by William »

[Replying to Bust Nak in post #21]
If true randomness existed, then we would not expect this to be the case...
I would expect this from a non-deterministic world.
Search "deterministic"
relating to the philosophical doctrine that all events, including human action, are ultimately determined by causes regarded as external to the will.


Yes. In a non-deterministic world, one would expect true randomness to exist.
So what exactly do you mean by true randomness?
Re cause and effect;
Mindlessness. Chaos. Accident.

If someone were to declare that the Universe was a random mindless accident of an event, then they are saying that its existence is a 'truly random event'. It is what they mean by true randomness, and it is that which can be shown not to exist.
How can you tell that the quantum mechanics' seemingly random part, isn't truly random?
If it were, then that would be the ripple effect the quantum would project as an aspect of our reality.
Since it projects mindfulness which we can work with through science, it can be agreed that anything seemingly random about quantum is just that, and no more.
Seemingly random as apposed to being actually random.
Looks like classic affirming the consequent fallacy to me: If mind then non-random, we see non-random, therefore mind.
The incontrovertible evidence affirms mind unless the consequent can be explained by showing why true randomness is able to express itself coherently.

For example, if a consequence only happened once and did not repeat itself, we have a case for the true random hypothesis.

However, if a consequence occurs enough times for us to rule out the true random hypothesis, then it is off the table.
Doing science would be an example of trying to match claims to objective reality.
Which is what I am doing and what I present as the findings.
You asked me what other ways there are other than matching claims to reality.
Not really. Even in your examples so far, there are gaps in logic.

What I asked you was how can I know that the statement "A statement is true when it matches objective reality." is true, other than to try and match it with objective reality.
Mindlessness is already ruled out due to the incontrovertible evidence re the number-values of word-strings.
Well, that is being disputed right now. So lets not just take that evidence as incontrovertible for granted.
I see no disputing taking place at present.

I agree one should not take the evidence as incontrovertible for granted, as we should always apply science to any evidence and test it for repeatability.
Have you done this yourself, and if so - what have you found?
If not, then what can you show us re claimed 'dispute'?
That the Message Generating Process is consistent in its coherency, no matter the type of selection system used to create them, adds supporting evidence that mindlessness through random accident is proven false.
Or it's just dumb luck?
That is the question. Is it a mindless chaotic process which just happens to consistently appear coherent, no matter what random system we use in order to select the word-strings which generate the message?

Q: At what point in the examination of the evidence can we take 'dumb luck' off the table of explanation?
How do you know you are not just looking that the equivalent of rolling two dice?
That is easy. I am rolling the equivalent of twenty six letters.

The letters are symbols which represent sounds and the sounds represent human language, depending upon the order the sounds are organized.

That exponentially increases the unlikelihood that the dumb luck of two dice are any kind of reasonable explanation.
By my calculations then, the "dumb luck of two dice" attempt at debunking fails to take into account that the generated messages involve the current use of 2546 data entry lines from which to select [through as random as possible systems of selection] so if we take your two dice to be standard six-sided ones, that equals 1 chance in 24 that something will be selected which will be coherent with something else selected, throughout the process.

Whereas dividing 2546 by 6, equals 424.3 dice being rolled per each selection...which should dramatical increase the chances of generating incoherent messages IF the universe is as you opinion.

Thus that explanation can be removed from the table.

[as an 'explanation' it isn't even very scientific anyway. It appears to come from a desperate place - like with the clutching of straws.]

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Re: Generating Messages

Post #23

Post by William »

300122

Three Zero Zero One Two Two = 334
You Know or You Don't know
The Smallest Spark can start a fire
I can't imagine it in my head visually


SCL

AP= "Understanding"

Selection Method:
Copy/Paste first page of shuffled list.
Shuffle list again.
Search each line-entry of original page and select pre and post lines for each.


6:21
Understanding
Actual realistic communication
Nature of The Holographic Universes
The Corporate Elite
Gods Purpose
A Meeting Place
Okay?
Rejuvenate
The Great Attractor
Zones of Sensitivity
(Do a Beginning and End)
The Dolphins And Whales
Code
Hold/Have
This Is My Kind Of Fun
Information Overload
Wait for the Navigator to respond...
Group/Family
Through Others
The Causal Complexity of The World
When Done Say "Done"
Start
Insidious
Accompanied
We don't know enough to close any door and leave those rooms unexplored...
Failure
The Dizzying Heights of Intellectually Honest Conversations
Looking For Gigs
Graphic Changes
New Shifts In Thinking
Couple
Influence
Not Emotion - State Of Being
Teaching Music
You Have An Invisible Friend
Heart Teachers
What Do You Like About It?
William's Commitment
Differences
Subatomic Particles
It is a Product of Fragmentation
Holographic Experiential Reality Simulations
Personal Participation With The One
Parity
Everything/All
Can You Imagine...
Communication With The Deeper Levels of Self
The Things You Do...
Six Heart Virtues
William and QueenBee
All The World

SCL

Point of Contact
Understanding
Limpid

Make It Up AS You Go Along
Actual realistic communication
Graphic Changes

Defamatory
Nature of The Holographic Universes
Ethical Transhumanism

Aligning With WingMakers
The Corporate Elite
In William's Room

Tetrahedron
Gods Purpose
UICDevice

Is That A Tear In Your Eye?
A Meeting Place
Rationality

The Big Shift Quest
Okay?
Sweet Hush

Expression of Appreciation of Experience
Rejuvenate
Soon

Pyramids of Giza
The Great Attractor
That Is Sad But Don't Let It Distract You

Direction
Zones of Sensitivity
Fearless

We were not conscious of being a human for a time, but this does not mean that consciousness wasn't there.
(Do a Beginning and End)
Synchronicity

Elemental Powers
The Dolphins And Whales
Numbers

The Minds Eye
Code
Calculator Active

System of Giving Energy
Hold/Have
Power

You Are Watched Over
This Is My Kind Of Fun
The Meaning of Life

Beyond Belief
Information Overload
The Power Of...

Try To Feel It
Wait for the Navigator to respond...
The Fog Is Lifting

Ingenuity
Group/Family
Arrival

Positive Social Connections
Through Others
Impressionable

Occupy
The Causal Complexity of The World
That Is The Equal Ground To Which Rational Communion Is Birthed

Subatomic Particles
When Done Say "Done"
Earth Entity

Educational
Start
Smart Phone

WindBlown
Insidious
Inflame Emotions

James Webb Space Telescope
Accompanied
Tetrad

Is there any such thing as 'Objective Morality' Doc
We don't know enough to close any door and leave those rooms unexplored...
I Digress...
Efficacious
Failure
Not Emotion - State Of Being...

World Wide Web
The Dizzying Heights of Intellectually Honest Conversations
WingMakers Medium

Afraid of The Unknown
Looking For Gigs
Intelligence With Wisdom

Actual realistic communication
Graphic Changes
Masks

Duality/Dualities Children
New Shifts In Thinking
What Is Friendship?

Walk The Talk In Love
Couple
Do A=6

This Should Be Interesting
Influence
Shine Your Light

What is the meaning of life?
Not Emotion - State Of Being...
Oneness

Be they seeds or suns, or be it that suns are seeds, it is all part of the universe, and everything that we acknowledge as the universe, came from a tiny seed.
Teaching Music
Source Intelligence and Lyricus facilitate the process throughout the Grand Universe

The Imagination
You Have An Invisible Friend
The Sub Hierarchy

Transactional
Heart Teachers
We shape our opinions and morals through understanding that we are here for that reason.

Improve
What Do You Like About It?
In an environment which is able to perceive this.

Birthing
William's Commitment
Wow!

Without Judgement
Differences
Free! Free! Free!

To Comprehend Correctly
Subatomic Particles
When Done Say "Done"

Intelligence With Wisdom
It is a Product of Fragmentation
Other way

Thomas Campbell's T.O.E
Holographic Experiential Reality Simulations
Innocent

Free Choice Ends Here
Personal Participation With The One
Beaming Out Beaming In

Debate
Parity
Encouraging Indication

Idea
Everything/All
Adversary

There are many levels of consciousness
Can You Imagine...
In The Team of the Collective

Like a Well Oiled Machine
Communication with the Deeper Levels of Self
The Object

Factotum
The Things You Do...
Manifest Destiny

The Nature of Role-Play Within Story-Lines
Six Heart Virtues
Potential of Milieu

Exploring Fractal Paths
William and QueenBee
The explanation of The Seed of Origin is the best

My thoughts on death Doc
All The World
Incentive

6:42

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Re: Generating Messages

Post #24

Post by William »

Online Random Word Generator

bury
habitual
shape
crazy
extra-small
trick
natural
recognise
clumsy
cub
witty
flat


Added 12 words to ComList.

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Re: Generating Messages

Post #25

Post by William »

310122

Three One Zero One Two Two = 304
Extra Sensory Perception
Solving Mathematical problems


5:46
SCL

AP= "To Know"

Selection Method:
Copy/Paste first page of shuffled list.
Shuffle list again.
Search each line-entry of original page and select pre and post lines for each.


To Know
Electrics
An Objective
Indestructible
Nature of Angels
Computer Coding
Word - String Values
https://www.infjs.com/threads/amour-pro ... st-1386765
The Clutter Of Comparison
Patience
Entity
The
Each
Teaching
Adroit
First Source:
Is Like...
Obfuscate
The evolution of the understanding of the idea of GOD Doc2
It May Seem Insignificant
You Are All Loveable...
What Fun We Have!
Connecting The Dots
It has yet to be demonstrated that nature is NOT the expression of a god.
WingMakers
Walk The Talk In Love
Out and about in the open
Realm of Dreams
The Hamitic Hypothesis
A Loving Mind
Get To Know It
The Smallest Spark
The Trap of Assumption
Crazy
The World Wide Web
Near Death Experience
Dilatory
Choices
It is obviously in line with providence...
ET and the notion of GODs Doc
Awesome
Observing Without Judgement
Personal Participation With The One
To assist with strengthening the connect
Language, Symbol and Alchemy
WingMakers Materials
Well That Settles It
Philo2
Dualic Energies Weak
A Loving Heart
Incunabula

Shift Focus
To Know
Dilemma


The Generated Messages
Electrics
Gods Purpose

The Language of Innocence
An Objective
James DP Book Introduction:

Sustainability
Indestructible
The Masks and the Costumes

Water The Garden
The Nature of Angels
The Love is within the Communion

The Vast UICDevice
Computer Coding
God Ideas Doc.

Out of Proportion
Word - String Values
Discussing the Data

Think About It
https://www.infjs.com/threads/amour-pro ... st-1386765
All Choice is An Act of Judgment?

Central Intelligence Agency
The Clutter Of Comparison
Playing As Children

Flowery
Patience
Rolling down the rails of the ridiculous

Etched mirror
Entity
Fine-structure Constant

Foresee/Foresight
The
Propitious

Elude
Each
Under question

Duty Calls
Teaching
Command

That's Powerful!
Adroit
Wise beyond ones years

Why?
First Source:
You Are Nobodies Victim - Ever.

Anu
Is Like...
Tremulous

Between
Obfuscate
Sometimes the simplest explanations are the best...

20/20
The evolution of the understanding of the idea of GOD Doc2
Now isn't the time for tears

Sit Tight
It May Seem Insignificant
William Plays Music

Central To The Vision
You Are All Loveable...
The Judgement Algorithm

Being
What Fun We Have!
The Hub Of Hologram Dimensions

I Think
Connecting The Dots
Learn

Slaughter
It has yet to be demonstrated that nature is NOT the expression of a god.
Union

Imagine that!
WingMakers
Make It Up AS You Go Along

Think In Terms Of Eternity
Walk The Talk In Love
Coordinate Forgiveness

End Of Act I
Out and about in the open
Efficacious

Union With Divinity
Realm of Dreams
Context

A defunct debate
The Hamitic Hypothesis
Prickly

Whatever you do
A Loving Mind
Zero In On It

The Torturous Treacherous Path
Get To Know It
Fascinating

Productive Rationality
The Smallest Spark
Fireside Friend

Conception
The Trap of Assumption
Providence

It Seemed Like a Good Idea at The Time
Crazy
Rationality

Any Other Way
The World Wide Web
The Respect You Give

Destination
Near Death Experience
You may be Psychic, not mentally ill.

Perfect
Dilatory
Limpid

Volunteer
Choices
A Meeting Place

Homeomorphic
It is obviously in line with providence...
Eternal Passion!

Propitious
ET and the notion of GODs Doc
Induce

Human Being
Awesome
Far Out! Shucks! Explain!

Judicious
Observing Without Judgement
Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle

Black
Personal Participation With The One
Seduce

Seeds are evidence that something large can derive from something tiny.
To assist with strengthening the connect
Everything Is Unique

Noetics
Language, Symbol and Alchemy
The Moment

One Whom Ought Be Inwardly Known
WingMakers Materials
Personal

Hive-Minded
Well That Settles It
Old Outposts Of Form

Flat
Philo2
Beautiful

Follow The Story-Line
Dualic Energies Weak
It Stands To Reason

Dequeue
A Loving Heart
The Face of God

Produce
Incunabula
Emergence Theory

6:13

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Re: Generating Messages

Post #26

Post by William »

Out of Proportion
Word - String Values
Discussing the Data
Obviously there is enough evidence provided which shows a consistency in repeating the Message Generating process, even with using different selection methods.
The consistency is that coherency is shown to be evident.

Each selection method brings with it, its own uniqueness in regard to the message generated, an interesting thing in itself.

Even that I am currently the only one doing this [as far as I have been made aware] it can be assumed that anyone who uses this system should also generate coherent messages.

What is required re that, is the individuals commitment to do the science. There is work involved which means there is time which has to be dedicated to, by the individual, but that is just the way of science/scientific study.

At least the individual does not have to rely on huge overheads which require sourcing funding for equipment etc.

Once one has a substantial enough ComList - 20 pages or more would be a good target to set - one can generate messages sufficiently for the testing to be undertaken, and the more one adds word-string to their ComList the better one is able to work with apparent randomness.

I have found when working with the ComList that it is useful to check for duplicates - there are a number of online algorithms which are freely available for working with lists and it is also useful to be open to different ways in which to use lists.

The other list I have I call Name2Number and this provides additional data which can be used for cross-referencing.

Name to number is distinct in that it provides incontrovertible evidence which require no interactional interpretation. It is what it is.

The development of Human Language is obviously something which - when sorted into lists of numerical values - shows clear evidence that, regardless of how life on Earth appears to be a random event, that their is intelligence and mindfulness behind the process which is often ignored or even bitterly contested.

The Message Generating Process allows for said Mind to speak for itself, and show itself to exist. As such, this is adequate evidence - the sort of evidence a sceptic calls for in relation to the subject of Intelligent Design.

The Name2Number system allows for one to build a data base - from single words to word string consisting of sentences and even paragraphs.

Work With Me. = 145
Through Device
Syncretism
Eyes wide open

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Re: Generating Messages

Post #27

Post by William »

The Language of Innocence
An Objective
James DP Book Introduction:

Sustainability
Indestructible
The Masks and the Costumes
In the book intro an individual human mind is placed within a decoratively carved rock by other beings and is forced to exist through the ages experiencing this position.

Eventually the rock is discovered by humans who wonder at its markings and what they might mean and who put them there. The mind of the entity is discovered by members of its species studying the rock but the mind is seen to be some magical rock which can be tapped into and through that, information obtained.

The rock becomes the possession of a powerful human religion, who use the knowledge obtained from the interaction, to rule all other humans with.

Another powerful human institution [which is non-religious] finds out about the rock and eventually - through ages of warfare - take possession of the rock, and replace the old religious rule, with their own non-religious rule.

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Re: Generating Messages

Post #28

Post by Bust Nak »

William wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 2:33 pm If someone were to declare that the Universe was a random mindless accident of an event, then they are saying that its existence is a 'truly random event'. It is what they mean by true randomness, and it is that which can be shown not to exist.
Well, there was an attempt at showing it. Shown? Not so much.
If it were, then that would be the ripple effect the quantum would project as an aspect of our reality.
Sure.
Since it projects mindfulness which we can work with through science, it can be agreed that anything seemingly random about quantum is just that, and no more.
Seemingly random as apposed to being actually random.
How did you come to that conclusion?
The incontrovertible evidence affirms mind unless the consequent can be explained by showing why true randomness is able to express itself coherently.
Now it's a classic argument from ignorance fallacy. You can't prove true randomness can do X, therefore true randomness did not do X.
For example, if a consequence only happened once and did not repeat] itself, we have a case for the true random hypothesis.

However, if a consequence occurs enough times for us to rule out the true random hypothesis, then it is off the table.
How many times is enough times?
What I asked you was how can I know that the statement "A statement is true when it matches objective reality." is true, other than to try and match it with objective reality.
I don't know of any reliable way.
I agree one should not take the evidence as incontrovertible for granted, as we should always apply science to any evidence and test it for repeatability.
Have you done this yourself, and if so - what have you found?
I found that reality matches with the hypothesis that it is mindless.
That is the question. Is it a mindless chaotic process which just happens to consistently appear coherent, no matter what random system we use in order to select the word-strings which generate the message?
Don't know. All I would say is that word value is consistent with a mindless chaotic process.
Q: At what point in the examination of the evidence can we take 'dumb luck' off the table of explanation?
Orders of magnitude more than what you have got here.
That is easy. I am rolling the equivalent of twenty six letters.

The letters are symbols which represent sounds and the sounds represent human language, depending upon the order the sounds are organized.

That exponentially increases the unlikelihood that the dumb luck of two dice are any kind of reasonable explanation.
How? The equivalent of twenty six letters sounded very much like the the equivalent of two dice. You have more sides, you roll more than two at a time.

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Re: Generating Messages

Post #29

Post by Difflugia »

William wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 2:33 pm
How do you know you are not just looking that the equivalent of rolling two dice?
That is easy. I am rolling the equivalent of twenty six letters.
The problem isn't the number of "dice" or how many sides they have, but that the algorithm is simple summation. Summation averages out noise and the random noise is what you're looking for. The "message values" will cluster tightly based on how many letters are in the message. If the distribution of letters in English were even, the average letter value would be 13.5. I ran a script on a few ebooks in my library and got an actual average of about 13.7. Ten-letter messages will cluster around and peak at 137. Twenty-letter messages will peak at 274.

The method is random in the sense that you can't predict the exact letters that a message will contain, but the value function has a decidedly nonrandom distribution.

There are algorithms that would theoretically produce a random distribution and if one of those generated nonrandom results, it might mean something. What do you feel that your current method measures? Maybe we could define a better experimental method.
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Re: Generating Messages

Post #30

Post by William »

Difflugia wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:29 am
William wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 2:33 pm
How do you know you are not just looking that the equivalent of rolling two dice?
That is easy. I am rolling the equivalent of twenty six letters.
The problem isn't the number of "dice" or how many sides they have, but that the algorithm is simple summation. Summation averages out noise and the random noise is what you're looking for. The "message values" will cluster tightly based on how many letters are in the message. If the distribution of letters in English were even, the average letter value would be 13.5. I ran a script on a few ebooks in my library and got an actual average of about 13.7. Ten-letter messages will cluster around and peak at 137. Twenty-letter messages will peak at 274.

The method is random in the sense that you can't predict the exact letters that a message will contain, but the value function has a decidedly nonrandom distribution.

There are algorithms that would theoretically produce a random distribution and if one of those generated nonrandom results, it might mean something. What do you feel that your current method measures? Maybe we could define a better experimental method.
What is being measured here are the symbols used to represent sounds made by human beings. The sounds made are organized into what is called language.

We can further organize the sounds mathematically, by delegating a value to each sound symbol and sound string symbols.

The alphabet represents the sounds made.

So we are not dealing primarily with the written word, but with the human vocal sounds we call "language".

That we cannot predict something does not mean it is therefore truly random, because that would mean we are superimposing our lack of knowledge onto reality and declaring that reality must be random.

Giving ourselves the permission to do this, does not mean that we are correct to do this.

When we give ourselves this permission, we imply that the default setting of the universe is random.

This itself, leads to further declarations that the universe is also a chaotic mindless mess of a thing, which suits the materialist agenda but has no actual basis in truth, producing unverified statements, such as "I find that reality matches with the hypothesis that it is mindless."

[Even that it took an actual mind operating with language, to make such a statement.]

Essentially messages are means of communicating information through sound, and the written word is one means of codifying sound in order to create written messages.

This shows that sound is the means by which human minds interact and the use of vocal chords to achieve this and the codifying of those sounds into language and language into symbols [word-strings] and the symbols into numerical values, shows evidence of being organized, which in turn casts doubt upon the belief that we exist within a mindless chaotic universe.
The evidence points to the universe as not being an accident of mindless happenstance, but rather, the universe is a purposeful mindful event.

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