Wasting Time?

[Zzyzx]

If we spend an hour per day worshiping Odin or Quetzalcoatl, that equates to fifteen 24-hour days per year. Would that be wasted time? There are, literally, thousands of 'gods' promoted by religions.

How can it be determined (beyond anyone's opinion) which, if any, of the proposed 'gods' are worthy of our time, effort, and resources?

[William]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #60]

Morality itself doesn't help me be moral.

Why is that the case?

Is it because you do not know what morality is, or something else?

[Purple Knight]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #60]

Morality itself doesn't help me be moral.

Why is that the case?

Is it because you do not know what morality is, or something else?

It might be. If I had a book of rules that everyone would respect (which I suspect moral people do, so I watch them closely and see how they act) that could help me but it wouldn't be conscious. I can't look at a simple rulebook the same way I could with even a fictional character and imagine, what does so-and-so want, what would so-and-so do, I would simply... read the book.

Whoever wrote that book I would probably worship them.

[William]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #60]

Morality itself doesn't help me be moral.

Why is that the case?

Is it because you do not know what morality is, or something else?

It might be. If I had a book of rules that everyone would respect (which I suspect moral people do, so I watch them closely and see how they act) that could help me but it wouldn't be conscious. I can't look at a simple rulebook the same way I could with even a fictional character and imagine, what does so-and-so want, what would so-and-so do, I would simply... read the book.

Whoever wrote that book I would probably worship them.

So if you don't know what morality is, how is it you place expectation on any being who can teach it to you, to the point you are willing to worship said being?

Even that neither of us appear to be clear or agree with what worshiping something actual means/consists of re action.

My own relationship forming with the Cosmic Mind involves setting up ways of communicating and allowing it opportunity to speak for itself.
In that, I have learned to avoid bringing into that relationship pre-conceived/learned ideals/ideas of 'what morality is' and do not base my expectations and personal commitment on moral issues, but on intelligent loving communion and results therein.

It is that communion which I have great regard for, in that, over the many years said relationship has been developing, "The Cosmic Mind" has proven itself worthy of my utmost respect and support which is as close a definition of "worship", as I so far understand.

Essentially a key element in that relationship has been my shutting up and listening - and in doing so, I have -initially struggling - had to let go of those pre-learn hand-me-down instructions [morality-based and otherwise] I held close prior to said relationship developing and taking off.

I can't say that this did not include emotional pain as sometimes we humans do make beliefs precious to the point these become part of who we are, and the tearing away from those things can - indeed - be quite psychologically painful.

Yet, still necessary if one wants to engage...heart to heart mind to mind. Thoughts are forts, and some walls just had to come down/be dismantled/transformed...

[William]

Purple knight and Dragon Child = 271
It is immediate, even visceral [relating to deep inward feelings rather than to the intellect.]
Communication Techniques

A Meeting Place
The Banner of Apotheosis
The School of Hard Knocks With Benefits.

Re: Generating Messages
Post #57
Post by William » Fri Feb 11, 2022 11:07 pm
source

Dragon Child = 95
Putting the pieces together
The Hub Of Hologram Dimensions

Purple Knight = 157
In the Era of Light
Sort It Out
Equal System
Astonishment
What Fun We Have!
Get The Picture
Lifting Our Game

[Purple Knight]

So if you don't know what morality is, how is it you place expectation on any being who can teach it to you, to the point you are willing to worship said being?

I know what it will look like if I attain morality, because I look at people who are moral and see what that looks like. It's the internal process that confuses me, because I know, it's the internal process that counts. If I imitate their actions I will not be regarded as moral, and yes, that is all morality is to me, how I am regarded. If there's something more to it inside the process I'm willing to learn, but I don't know of it at this time.

My own relationship forming with the Cosmic Mind involves setting up ways of communicating and allowing it opportunity to speak for itself.
In that, I have learned to avoid bringing into that relationship pre-conceived/learned ideals/ideas of 'what morality is' and do not base my expectations and personal commitment on moral issues, but on intelligent loving communion and results therein.

It is that communion which I have great regard for, in that, over the many years said relationship has been developing, "The Cosmic Mind" has proven itself worthy of my utmost respect and support which is as close a definition of "worship", as I so far understand.

Essentially a key element in that relationship has been my shutting up and listening - and in doing so, I have -initially struggling - had to let go of those pre-learn hand-me-down instructions [morality-based and otherwise] I held close prior to said relationship developing and taking off.

I can't say that this did not include emotional pain as sometimes we humans do make beliefs precious to the point these become part of who we are, and the tearing away from those things can - indeed - be quite psychologically painful.

Yet, still necessary if one wants to engage...heart to heart mind to mind. Thoughts are forts, and some walls just had to come down/be dismantled/transformed...

I do listen. That's part of the reason I'm here. I'm also on other forums where I consider morality exists strongly, and I try to prefer the ones where people are allowed to tear one another apart verbally for holding the wrong ideas, because I'm interested in where the righteous outrage comes from, how people judge that this is something that should provoke outrage, and how I can identify for myself and share in the outrage, thus becoming a moral person: One who is qualified to pass judgment on others - one who is above having judgment passed on them because of some quality they possess.

But I have to admit this forum is comparatively relaxing and regenerating, I actually enjoy listening to the people here, and I enjoy debating and discussing here. I use this forum as sort of a dessert dish, maybe one I ought not get most of my nutrients from, but the food that is good for me is often barely-palatable and I only choke it down because I ought to.

[William]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #65]

I know what it will look like if I attain morality, because I look at people who are moral and see what that looks like.

What does it 'look like'? Given the ability of humans to act, how do you know the morality isn't contrived for the purpose of display for some kind of immoral gain?

It's the internal process that confuses me, because I know, it's the internal process that counts.

Would you agree that this has a lot to do with your knowing that people can act and you cannot read their minds?

You are correct that it is the internal process which counts, and I would argue that it counts because you are 'going within' [internal introspection] in an effort to get to know the process that you do not have to be confused by the external...because the external cannot be known as acutely the internal can be known.

If there's something more to it inside the process I'm willing to learn, but I don't know of it at this time.

If one is willing to learn then one has no choice but to apply deep introspective techniques.

It takes some time to learn to trust deep introspective techniques as reliable navigation device.

I do listen. That's part of the reason I'm here. I'm also on other forums where I consider morality exists strongly, and I try to prefer the ones where people are allowed to tear one another apart verbally for holding the wrong ideas, because I'm interested in where the righteous outrage comes from, how people judge that this is something that should provoke outrage, and how I can identify for myself and share in the outrage, thus becoming a moral person: One who is qualified to pass judgment on others - one who is above having judgment passed on them because of some quality they possess.

Will you consider the idea that the above is an example of external contrivance - which has either been identified by you as "Morality" or has been identified as such by all those who practice it as a technique.

I myself do not identify morality with such practice, as I have seen no logical reason as to why it should be considered moral.

But I have to admit this forum is comparatively relaxing and regenerating, I actually enjoy listening to the people here, and I enjoy debating and discussing here. I use this forum as sort of a dessert dish, maybe one I ought not get most of my nutrients from, but the food that is good for me is often barely-palatable and I only choke it down because I ought to.

There is something to be said for polite engagement but often this is regulated so terribly that I now seldom interact with Christians on this board for fear of someone getting all offended by inoffensive stuff I post and complaining about it [in a hidden/sneaky manner] to the mods, and supported in doing so by the structure of the rule-set. I have two marks against my name and cannot be bothered trying to argue for rule-change because the risk of doing so results in being unfairly punished.

I have learned not to trust/befriend those who call themselves "Christians", as I have a lengthy-enough lifetime of subjective and clear trail of evidence, that to do so often ends in some type of betrayal and underhanded practices.

I prefer my battles to be done out in the open, where all are privy to the proceedings, as I think of that as a better moral practice than ducking and hiding away from truth/truthfulness.

Fortunately, there are folk who don't call themselves Christians who participate regularly on this board, so I still have reason to engage hereabouts.

[Purple Knight]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #65]

I know what it will look like if I attain morality, because I look at people who are moral and see what that looks like.

What does it 'look like'? Given the ability of humans to act, how do you know the morality isn't contrived for the purpose of display for some kind of immoral gain?

I don't. But if morality is entirely fake, 100% made-up anyway, then I just want that gain too and that's fine. To me attaining morality looks like being the one who is righteous in castigating others, and being morally wrong looks like being the one getting castigated.

Would you agree that this has a lot to do with your knowing that people can act and you cannot read their minds?

What it seems to me is that people can act and other people can always read their minds, as well as reading my mind, and determine that for the same act, which I imitated, his motives were righteous and mine were evil.

You are correct that it is the internal process which counts, and I would argue that it counts because you are 'going within' [internal introspection] in an effort to get to know the process that you do not have to be confused by the external...because the external cannot be known as acutely the internal can be known.

If one is willing to learn then one has no choice but to apply deep introspective techniques.

It takes some time to learn to trust deep introspective techniques as reliable navigation device.

I'm always having these sorts of journeys and testing the results. Perhaps the internal process was this, and then that would also be moral. Or perhaps the internal process was this other way, and then this other thing would be moral. Then I attempt the actions myself and see whether I am regarded well or poorly. If poorly, if I am castigated again, I say, well then, that must not have been the process.

Will you consider the idea that the above is an example of external contrivance - which has either been identified by you as "Morality" or has been identified as such by all those who practice it as a technique.

I think it's important to test things against reality as well as logic. Though I have observed that those who have open disdain for logic and hold contradictory morals are regarded better than those who can explain their moral structure's consistency.

I myself do not identify morality with such practice, as I have seen no logical reason as to why it should be considered moral.

Well it's the only option for someone who was born without his own personal Jiminy Cricket. And no fairy godmother is going to come down from the clouds and give me one either. But the blind can learn to see with sound, so I have hope.

There is something to be said for polite engagement but often this is regulated so terribly that I now seldom interact with Christians on this board for fear of someone getting all offended by inoffensive stuff I post and complaining about it [in a hidden/sneaky manner] to the mods, and supported in doing so by the structure of the rule-set. I have two marks against my name and cannot be bothered trying to argue for rule-change because the risk of doing so results in being unfairly punished.

I've been treated perhaps too well here.

I have learned not to trust/befriend those who call themselves "Christians", as I have a lengthy-enough lifetime of subjective and clear trail of evidence, that to do so often ends in some type of betrayal and underhanded practices.

I prefer my battles to be done out in the open, where all are privy to the proceedings, as I think of that as a better moral practice than ducking and hiding away from truth/truthfulness.

Fortunately, there are folk who don't call themselves Christians who participate regularly on this board, so I still have reason to engage hereabouts.

I'm definitely not a Christian. I may have been one by accident when I read the Narnia books as a child, but I assure you it was entirely a blunder because I had no idea what that lion was actually supposed to be. I essentially hugged what I thought was a soft, fuzzy, loving sleeping kitty that was really a swarm of maggots barely contained by the skin of a dead cat. And if there was honesty in that hug, I've been paying for it for the rest of my life.