Where is, and recognizing the devil

[nobspeople]

How can one recognize the devil?
"Be careful! Watch out for attacks from the devil, your great enemy. He prowls around like a roaring lion, looking for some victim to devour. Take a firm stand against him, and be strong in your faith" (I Peter 5:8-9)
There it's said he's a like a roaring lion, but here
"Satan can disguise himself as an angel of light. So it is no wonder his servants can also do it by pretending to be godly ministers" (II Corinthians 11:14-15).
it says he can be like an angel of light.

So which is it? A roaring lion or light angel? Contradictory much? Or maybe, the devil can be both things, at which point we're right back to the first question, how can one recognize him.

"Humble yourselves before God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you" (James 4:7).
This seems to say if you're humble before god, you can resist the devil and he will leave you. But it still doesn't say how to recognize him.
This:
"He was a murderer from the beginning and has always hated the truth. There is no truth in him. When he lies, it is consistent with his character; for he is a liar and the father of lies" (John 8:44).
doesn't seem to help recognizing him, either - just tells you what it claims the devil is.

Seems the devil is more of a spirit and less of a legitimate 'thing' (though some claim it's a very real person - see link below*, which seems odd to use the term 'person'), so maybe, to recognize it, when need to know where it lives today.
Pergamum was said to be “where the throne of Satan is” and “where Satan is dwelling.” (Revelation 2:13). However, some think this refers more to the satanic worship than an actual residence. Odd that god would let some think this and others think something else, but that's another story to address elsewhere.
The Bible says that the Devil rules over “all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth,” so he does not dwell in any one physical location on earth but is confined to the vicinity of the earth.​—(Luke 4:​5, 6).

For discussion: How does one recognize the devil? Or does that even matter? And where is the devil today?

* https://www.focusonthefamily.com/family ... the-devil/

[Tcg]

To know the devil, it might be a good start, to know oneself.

I know myself perfectly well, but that is totally irrelevant to the issue at hand. I'm still waiting for you to provide verifiable evidence of the devil.


Tcg

Apparently, according to your description of your "devil", it does not correspond to the biblical "devil", and therefore it might be hard to verify something that doesn't exist.

If you claim that the devil does indeed exist, it is on you to provide verifiable evidence that this is so. What have you that qualifies?


Tcg

[2ndpillar2]

To know the devil, it might be a good start, to know oneself.

I know myself perfectly well, but that is totally irrelevant to the issue at hand. I'm still waiting for you to provide verifiable evidence of the devil.


Tcg

Apparently, according to your description of your "devil", it does not correspond to the biblical "devil", and therefore it might be hard to verify something that doesn't exist.

If you claim that the devil does indeed exist, it is on you to provide verifiable evidence that this is so. What have you that qualifies?


Tcg

The fact that you suffer pain, is proof enough.

[Tcg]

To know the devil, it might be a good start, to know oneself.

I know myself perfectly well, but that is totally irrelevant to the issue at hand. I'm still waiting for you to provide verifiable evidence of the devil.


Tcg

Apparently, according to your description of your "devil", it does not correspond to the biblical "devil", and therefore it might be hard to verify something that doesn't exist.

If you claim that the devil does indeed exist, it is on you to provide verifiable evidence that this is so. What have you that qualifies?


Tcg

The fact that you suffer pain, is proof enough.

No, it isn't. The fact that I suffer pain, as does everyone, is evidence that I, and everyone else, suffers pain.


Tcg

[2ndpillar2]

To know the devil, it might be a good start, to know oneself.

I know myself perfectly well, but that is totally irrelevant to the issue at hand. I'm still waiting for you to provide verifiable evidence of the devil.


Tcg

Apparently, according to your description of your "devil", it does not correspond to the biblical "devil", and therefore it might be hard to verify something that doesn't exist.

If you claim that the devil does indeed exist, it is on you to provide verifiable evidence that this is so. What have you that qualifies?


Tcg

The fact that you suffer pain, is proof enough.

No, it isn't. The fact that I suffer pain, as does everyone, is evidence that I, and everyone else, suffers pain.


Tcg

That is not quite true. You can't provide verifiable evidence that you suffer pain, although you may think in your mind that you suffer pain. and I think you think you suffer pain, probably in response to the sins you bear, and on the other hand, the righteous don't suffer as the wicked. You can go to your doctor, but he will probably just transfer one pain to somewhere else. Please don't confuse "Christians" with the righteous. The "Christians", like apparently most antitheist, feel that they can set the law from within their own heart, and then suffer consequently. The "Christians", via the false prophet Paul, via Romans 7:20-21, blame their sin, the base of their suffering on the evil/devil within them. You apparently only have yourself to blame for any actions which lead to your eventual suffering and pain. You apparently make false assumptions not based on any verifiable evidence.

[Goat]

You can see Satan in anything that opposes God. Lying, stealing, fornication, murder...etc (all sin basically) is where you will find Satan. He is the originator of the temptation to sin and he is smack-dab in the middle of sin.

You'd need to establish the existence of Satan before this post could be evaluated.


Tcg

No I don't. God has already established the existence of Satan.

How did he do that?

[brunumb]

...she acquired his vanity and ego. ...

Sorry, i don’t see any reason to think the vanity and ego would be God’s qualities.

She was made in God's image. Where else would it come from? This was before sin entered the picture.

[Goat]

...she acquired his vanity and ego. ...

Sorry, i don’t see any reason to think the vanity and ego would be God’s qualities.

"For I am a Jealous God" That fits in with vanity and ego.

[brunumb]

The fact that you suffer pain, is proof enough. [that the devil does indeed exist]

Or it is evidence that the nervous system evolved a means of indicating that some form of injury has occurred. You have not demonstrated any verifiable link between pain and an alleged devil.

[Diagoras]

The Bible says that the Devil rules over “all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth,” so he does not dwell in any one physical location on earth but is confined to the vicinity of the earth.​—(Luke 4:​5, 6).

So what's his 'end game' here? This "ruling over the earth" doesn't seem to involve any of the attributes you'd commonly associate with a ruler. His main interaction with his 'subjects' (if you can call them that) seems to be to subtly tempt them into sinning, and therefore away from God. What's in it for the Devil in this story? Is he just trying to spoil God's party? He doesn't demand obedience or sacrifice from anyone.

What powers does he possess as a ruler? Presumably some kind of omniscience and omnipresence similar to God's, if he can zip about tempting billions of people on a daily basis. Why does he bother with any of this, though? He lacks a clear purpose.

[Purple Knight]

Or maybe, the devil can be both things, at which point we're right back to the first question, how can one recognize him.

"Humble yourselves before God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you" (James 4:7).

This is one of my main sticking points against Christianity because the easy answer is, "God wants you to do good, while the Devil wishes for evil and suffering."

Except then, you can't have faith. You can never be asked to go against your own Reason and/or conscience and just accept that some entity besides you knows best because that destroys the easy answer, and probably the only answer, to this question.

The Bible says that the Devil rules over “all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth,” so he does not dwell in any one physical location on earth but is confined to the vicinity of the earth.​—(Luke 4:​5, 6).

So what's his 'end game' here? This "ruling over the earth" doesn't seem to involve any of the attributes you'd commonly associate with a ruler. His main interaction with his 'subjects' (if you can call them that) seems to be to subtly tempt them into sinning, and therefore away from God. What's in it for the Devil in this story? Is he just trying to spoil God's party? He doesn't demand obedience or sacrifice from anyone.

What powers does he possess as a ruler? Presumably some kind of omniscience and omnipresence similar to God's, if he can zip about tempting billions of people on a daily basis. Why does he bother with any of this, though? He lacks a clear purpose.

I think the lore on this is that Lucifer thought angels were good enough and objected to the creation of humans as unnecessary. It was a huge sticking point of his with God and why he ultimately fell from Heaven. It's also his main motivation in making humans look bad, which he can do because humans are bad. It's why he never really forces anybody to do anything: He's trying to show the true nature of the human.

It might be that Lucifer is wrong, but he at least behaves as if he truly believes he's correct. He's trying to win that argument fair and square.

Now, Lucifer knows God is omniscient, so the only way this makes any sort of sense is that Lucifer is operating under some assumption that we're not privy to, because as far as we know, God is never going to lose an argument or change his mind, so everything the devil does is pointless. It is reasonable though to speculate on what this knowledge Lucifer has that we do not, could possibly be. It could be that angels are the ones being actually tested and the right choice is to resist an unfair decision to backseat them and people the planet with naked violent apes. It could be that God is actually bound by fairness (unbeknownst to us) and if Lucifer wins that argument, God has to abide by what was proven.