Russia Attacks Ukraine

[Diogenes]

For the first time since 1939 a major European power, Russia, has attacked another country in Europe, Ukraine. We have not seen an analogous situation since Germany attacked Poland setting off World War 2. Surprisingly we have Neville Chamberlain like appeasement/isolationist responses from Donald Trump and Tucker Carlson. Besides the 180 turn from traditional Republican politics, to what extent are these events relevant to Christianity?

[otseng]

IOW, you are serving as apologists for slaughter and are in league with the likes of N. Korea and Syria.

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[Abigail]

Senator Lindsay Graham is under fire for recently making a public comment saying people in Russia should assassinate Putin.
Good for him.
A 20 years long war criminal record and Putin is a billionaire....in RUSSIA!
Rather than put American or our allies "boots on the ground", take out the problem itself. Per Sen. Graham. Paraphrasing.

Personally, I think they're all in this together. World governance.
The stimulus checks Americans received during the Plandemic, and "lock down". (A term reserved for prisons). Now, government is getting their money back through, "Inflation".
Inflation is man made and part of organized planning by governments.

Money and control.
Those in control have all the money. Because we who are in majority but are the working class and poor labor to insure the rich get richer. The more we make the more they take. (Income Tax= Indentured Servitude).

[Sherlock Holmes]

Senator Lindsay Graham is under fire for recently making a public comment saying people in Russia should assassinate Putin.
Good for him.
A 20 years long war criminal record and Putin is a billionaire....in RUSSIA!
Rather than put American or our allies "boots on the ground", take out the problem itself. Per Sen. Graham. Paraphrasing.

Personally, I think they're all in this together. World governance.
The stimulus checks Americans received during the Plandemic, and "lock down". (A term reserved for prisons). Now, government is getting their money back through, "Inflation".
Inflation is man made and part of organized planning by governments.

Money and control.
Those in control have all the money. Because we who are in majority but are the working class and poor labor to insure the rich get richer. The more we make the more they take. (Income Tax= Indentured Servitude).

Did you say Lindsay? personally I never trust a man who has a girl's or a duck's first name.

[mgb]

A little lesson in history from Gorbachov https://www.rbth.com/international/2014 ... 40673.html

[Sherlock Holmes]

Now this is pretty puzzling: US dismisses Polish plan to provide fighter jets to be sent to Ukraine.

The Polish Government stated this publicly at about 15:30 EST, following some pressure from the UK:

The authorities of the Republic of Poland, after consultations between the President and the Government, are ready to deploy immediately and free of charge all their MIG-29 jets to the Ramstein Air Base and place them at the disposal of the Government of the United States of America.

At the same time, Poland requests the United States to provide us with used aircraft with corresponding operational capabilities. Poland is ready to immediately establish the conditions of purchase of the planes.

The Polish Government also requests other NATO Allies owners of MIG-29 jets to act in the same vein.

then at 18:30 EST (three hours later) we get this:

But the Pentagon appeared to reject the proposal, saying it was not "tenable".

In a statement, the US Department of Defense said the prospect of the jets departing from the base "to fly into airspace that is contested with Russia over Ukraine raises serious concerns for the entire Nato alliance".

"We will continue to consult with Poland and our other Nato allies about this issue and the difficult logistical challenges it presents, but we do not believe Polands proposal is a tenable one," John Kirby, the Pentagon press secretary, said.

and

However, the US under secretary of state for political affairs, Victoria Nuland, said the Polish announcement had taken Washington unawares, calling it a "surprise move by the Poles".

"To my knowledge, it wasnt pre-consulted with us that they plan to give these planes to us," Nuland told Congress. "I look forward when this hearing is over to getting back to my desk and seeing how we will respond to this proposal of theirs to give the planes to us."

Then we have this from earlier today:

British defense secretary on Tuesday said he would support Poland if the country decides to supply jets to Ukraine.

Speaking to Sky News, Ben Wallace said he would "stand by Poland" as a fellow NATO member if the country chooses to provide Ukraine with MIG planes in exchange of US aircraft.

Wallaces remarks came amid reports that Poland was mulling to supply MiG-29 jets to Ukraine and it is in talks with Washington to replace them with US jets.

"Poland will understand that the choices it makes will not only directly help Ukraine, which is a good thing, but also may bring them into direct line of fire from countries such as Russia or Belarus," Wallace said.

"They will have to calibrate that. That's a really big responsibility on the shoulders of the president of Poland and, indeed, defence minister."

He said: "So, it's not for me to second-guess their choice. But it is for me as a fellow NATO member to say I will stand by Poland."

Poland and the US are reportedly in talks over sending warplanes to Ukraine and Warsaw is after a guarantee on the supply of US fighter jets.

You mean such a plan was not even discussed within NATO? the North Atlantic Council were unaware of a decision like this by one of its members? Sounds to me like NATO are all over the place, no idea what to do.

Maybe its all about who has to get their hands dirty delivering the goods, they need a delivery boy...

[Abigail]

Senator Lindsay Graham is under fire for recently making a public comment saying people in Russia should assassinate Putin.
Good for him.
A 20 years long war criminal record and Putin is a billionaire....in RUSSIA!
Rather than put American or our allies "boots on the ground", take out the problem itself. Per Sen. Graham. Paraphrasing.

Personally, I think they're all in this together. World governance.
The stimulus checks Americans received during the Plandemic, and "lock down". (A term reserved for prisons). Now, government is getting their money back through, "Inflation".
Inflation is man made and part of organized planning by governments.

Money and control.
Those in control have all the money. Because we who are in majority but are the working class and poor labor to insure the rich get richer. The more we make the more they take. (Income Tax= Indentured Servitude).

Did you say Lindsay? personally I never trust a man who has a girl's or a duck's first name.

I never trust a man named after a fictional detective.

[Sherlock Holmes]

Senator Lindsay Graham is under fire for recently making a public comment saying people in Russia should assassinate Putin.
Good for him.
A 20 years long war criminal record and Putin is a billionaire....in RUSSIA!
Rather than put American or our allies "boots on the ground", take out the problem itself. Per Sen. Graham. Paraphrasing.

Personally, I think they're all in this together. World governance.
The stimulus checks Americans received during the Plandemic, and "lock down". (A term reserved for prisons). Now, government is getting their money back through, "Inflation".
Inflation is man made and part of organized planning by governments.

Money and control.
Those in control have all the money. Because we who are in majority but are the working class and poor labor to insure the rich get richer. The more we make the more they take. (Income Tax= Indentured Servitude).

Did you say Lindsay? personally I never trust a man who has a girl's or a duck's first name.

I never trust a man named after a fictional detective.

Fictional?

[Sherlock Holmes]

I really am of the opinion that Zelenskiy is a danger, he is part of the problem.

Despite Russia warning years ago how it would react to Ukraine joining NATO he persisted in pursuing it, despite Russia asking in January and February for an agreement on Ukraine remaining neutral, he showed contempt for the idea as did the West, every NATO member played along.

Now, despite huge damage being done, civilians dying, cities being destroyed and getting worse, Zelenskiy still absolutely refuses to meet what are reasonable demands from Russia.

Of course it also seems to be the case the the far right in Ukraine are hell bent on not doing any kind of deal with Russia and have warned Zelenskiy not do deal with Russia, perhaps even threatening to overthrow him.

All it would take is for one single NATO member (NATO is consensus based, without unanimity nothing happens) to stand up and say "We have reconsidered our position with Ukraine and NATO and we are opposed" that right there would be a huge step forward, but they won't, it is as if the West want to see Ukraine destroyed at all cost, the insane obsessive desire to have Ukraine in NATO is going to be self defeating, if the West and Zelenskiy continue to give Russia the finger on this issue then Ukraine will continue to get turned into rubble.

Western media are saying far too little about this, instead all they do is continue to portray the childishly simple "good guy" vs "bad guy" fantasy.

Zelenskiy is repeatedly asking for NATO to get involved too, why? anyone can see that Russia will not shy away from attacking a NATO member if it itself is attacked by a NATO member, so what he's asking for is absolutely insane in comparison backing down to Russian demands, he'll destroy his country if he continues like this.

[AgnosticBoy]

Why would you take Russia's side and not want Ukraine and other INDEPENDENT nations to be able to maintain their independence by a voluntary alliance with others fearing Russia?

Did I label him 'pro-Russian?' I asked why he would take Russia's side. I saw Hitler's invasion of Europe and the allies' belated defense as about as close to 'black & white' as we are likely to get. Putin is following the same pattern. The West is again slow to act decisively. What will it take to stand up to the bully who, like Hitler, clothes himself in Christianity?

Well you did say Sherlock was taking Russia's side. It seems that you're viewing this all through the lens of sides, i.e. "us. vs them" mentality. Logic and evidence should determine who is right and wrong, and some times it's not a matter of one side being right in every way and the other wrong in every way. Hek some times both sides can be wrong!

Ask yourself, if many don't trust the American government and see corruption when it comes to domestic issues, then why should we believe that the same corrupt politicians won't also be corrupt when it comes to foreign policy issues? That to me would be one reason to not always take America's side even if you're an American.

Some may try to demean me by calling my statements "unpatriotic" (although the same people have no problem attacking their AMERICAN political opponents just as Jose Fly did while calling others American bashers), but my loyalty lies first and foremost with truth. I'm not going to die or fight for a falsehood. My American patriotism involves being able to QUESTION and being willing to devote my time to fix my own country first!

[Sherlock Holmes]

The final vote was 141 to condemn, 34 abstentions, and only four backing Russia (which cast the fifth "no" vote)Belarus, North Korea, Eritrea, and Syria. So you're in rather....um....interesting company there SH.

Yes we know, here's more detail for you:

The contrast between these maps could not be more striking. The US, the UK, Canada, South Korea, Switzerland, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Taiwan, Singapore, the EU: beyond this fortified coalition, very few nations have chosen to take part in the economic warfare set against the Putin government. On the contrary, many of the worlds largest nations including China, India, Brazil, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Indonesia, and even Nato ally Turkey have refused to join in. "We will not blindly follow the steps taken by another country," said Indonesias foreign ministry representative at a recent press conference.

Latin America has been equally steadfast in its commitment to neutrality. "We do not consider that [this war] concerns us," said the Mexican president, Andrs Manuel Lpez Obrador. "We are not going to take any sort of economic reprisal because we want to have good relations with all governments." Argentina may have voted to condemn Russias actions at the UN, but its foreign minister, Santiago Cafiero, was adamant about his countrys non-participation in the new sanctions push: "Argentina does not consider that they are a mechanism to generate peace and harmony, or generate a frank dialogue table that serves to save lives."

The rapid rise of China and the US reaction it has provoked have prompted many commentators to predict a coming cold war. Few expected Vladimir Putin to kick it off so suddenly. "Putins invasion of Ukraine has ended Americans 30-year holiday from history," writes the former CIA director Robert Gates for the Washington Post. The immediate eviction of Russian representatives and Russian culture from the institutions of the west suggest the long slumber of the cold war may indeed be over: "Putins war has provided the cold shower needed to awaken democratic governments to the reality of a new world."

Back in the first cold war, neutrality had a name: non-alignment. As the United States clashed with China and the Soviet Union in the skies above Korea, Jawaharlal Nehru and Josip Broz Tito refused to take a side. "The people of Yugoslavia cannot accept the postulate that humanity today has only one choice a choice between a domination of one or the other bloc," Yugoslavias minister of foreign affairs, Edvard Kardelj, told the UN in 1950. "We believe that there exists another road." The Non-Aligned Movement was born five years later, uniting more than 100 nations around the world around principles of non-interference and peaceful coexistence.

From today's The Guardian.