Where is, and recognizing the devil

[nobspeople]

How can one recognize the devil?
"Be careful! Watch out for attacks from the devil, your great enemy. He prowls around like a roaring lion, looking for some victim to devour. Take a firm stand against him, and be strong in your faith" (I Peter 5:8-9)
There it's said he's a like a roaring lion, but here
"Satan can disguise himself as an angel of light. So it is no wonder his servants can also do it by pretending to be godly ministers" (II Corinthians 11:14-15).
it says he can be like an angel of light.

So which is it? A roaring lion or light angel? Contradictory much? Or maybe, the devil can be both things, at which point we're right back to the first question, how can one recognize him.

"Humble yourselves before God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you" (James 4:7).
This seems to say if you're humble before god, you can resist the devil and he will leave you. But it still doesn't say how to recognize him.
This:
"He was a murderer from the beginning and has always hated the truth. There is no truth in him. When he lies, it is consistent with his character; for he is a liar and the father of lies" (John 8:44).
doesn't seem to help recognizing him, either - just tells you what it claims the devil is.

Seems the devil is more of a spirit and less of a legitimate 'thing' (though some claim it's a very real person - see link below*, which seems odd to use the term 'person'), so maybe, to recognize it, when need to know where it lives today.
Pergamum was said to be “where the throne of Satan is” and “where Satan is dwelling.” (Revelation 2:13). However, some think this refers more to the satanic worship than an actual residence. Odd that god would let some think this and others think something else, but that's another story to address elsewhere.
The Bible says that the Devil rules over “all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth,” so he does not dwell in any one physical location on earth but is confined to the vicinity of the earth.​—(Luke 4:​5, 6).

For discussion: How does one recognize the devil? Or does that even matter? And where is the devil today?

* https://www.focusonthefamily.com/family ... the-devil/

[theophile]

[Replying to theophile in post #109]

God prophecies this in Genesis 3, that there will be enmity (an adversarial relationship) between the serpent's offspring and humankind's.

Where is this 'offspring' of the serpents?

I've mentioned a couple examples already. We see the satan in Job. We see the dragon (that ancient serpent) in Revelation.

Clearly the Hebrew version of God [as character] is oft presented in an adversarial role [the garden story as one example].

I'm not sure if God is the adversary in Genesis 3 (in the sense of coming with adversarial intent), but I do think you're right that God fits the profile of the satanic, especially when it comes to evil.

Christianity took pagan imagery and superimposed it upon the character which it evolved as representing Satan. Pan was one such image which was hijacked and used for this purpose.

I think that's probably true. More interesting to me at least is the NT reference to the dragon. Which is a reptilian linkage to the serpent, but more importantly links back to the deep / sea (of Genesis 1), and ancient Mesopotamian representations of it as a dragon goddess.

I'm not saying that the deep / sea is Satan, but rather that the dragon of Revelation is its twisted, evolved form. Contorted over generations of evil and enmity to itself become a force of evil in the world that needs to be struck and cast down.

[William]

[Replying to theophile in post #111]

Christianity took pagan imagery and superimposed it upon the character which it evolved as representing Satan. Pan was one such image which was hijacked and used for this purpose.

I think that's probably true. More interesting to me at least is the NT reference to the dragon. Which is a reptilian linkage to the serpent, but more importantly links back to the deep / sea (of Genesis 1), and ancient Mesopotamian representations of it as a dragon goddess.

I'm not saying that the deep / sea is Satan, but rather that the dragon of Revelation is its twisted, evolved form. Contorted over generations of evil and enmity to itself become a force of evil in the world that needs to be struck and cast down.

Tamed. Needs to be tamed. Is in the process of being tamed.

What we do know is that once upon a time on Earth - humans were not present but Lizards were. Great Apes were nowhere to be seen during the age of the Great [and terrifying] Lizards.

"Dragons"



Recent Generated message re "Dragons"

A Game Of Chess
Tickling The Dragon's Tail
Those Who Can

The World
Dungeons and Dragons
Have One For Me

Generated Messages Coming From A Creator
Sleeping Dragon
In Cell 32 I Found Love In You

Listening
Progress
Dragons

William: Dragons? That is also in the group-value 78 - along with "Visible" and "Galaxies"

A lot of weird things have been happening...
The process of individuation


William: It gets down to that. The person is an individual attempting to fit into a collective...even if that means being in the wilderness and off-line - there is still a grid one is hooked into... a "Leg Hold Trap" - for now the Earth-Dragon has our attention...but to what degree...are we listening?

Sleeping Dragon
First Things First
Binary

William: The Mother re QueenBee aka "Mother Earth" and "Sleeping Dragon..." she is a bit different than how the song portrays "Mothers Love" but even so - the word are about being watched over how being held close and let go stepping stone being led home taking time to look into the hearts of her children - roots and wings learn to dream because we are believed in there no power like it thank you ...selfless giving finding ones voice being taught to be strong enough to bend treasure to find...the gift of a Mothers Love...

But still a scary dragon up close and personal...reconciling the yin and yang...

We Are
The Devil You Say
Strangers truly are the friends we haven’t met - The souls we don’t forget through life’s long lessons
A feather in one's cap

William: Well now, the Devil is inferred in The Dragon...humans do superimpose stuff onto stuff.
What it really denotes is the scary dark-side of The Mother...not that She ultimately is an actual evil GodDevil

Differences
There is no need to proclaim a supernatural event to what is simply an idea put into action.
Inflame Emotions

William: Right...so Dragons being "of the fantasy realm of human imagination" [supernatural] can overdo the superimposing...rather just take the physical universe as it is without overdoing it with fantasy...
...it becomes a kind of house of horrors ride - it is scary but that is natural and anyway, it is not all frightening once you get to know it...

Act With The Situation Rather Than Against It
Wise beyond ones years

[theophile]

[Replying to theophile in post #111]

Christianity took pagan imagery and superimposed it upon the character which it evolved as representing Satan. Pan was one such image which was hijacked and used for this purpose.

I think that's probably true. More interesting to me at least is the NT reference to the dragon. Which is a reptilian linkage to the serpent, but more importantly links back to the deep / sea (of Genesis 1), and ancient Mesopotamian representations of it as a dragon goddess.

I'm not saying that the deep / sea is Satan, but rather that the dragon of Revelation is its twisted, evolved form. Contorted over generations of evil and enmity to itself become a force of evil in the world that needs to be struck and cast down.

Tamed. Needs to be tamed. Is in the process of being tamed.

There are two types of beasts in this world. Good ones that need to be tamed / subdued, and evil ones that need to be struck and destroyed.

Again, the very idea of the satanic (originating between Eve and the good serpent of Genesis 3) predicts this schism and twisted mutation requiring destruction.

[William]

[Replying to theophile in post #113]

There are two types of beasts in this world. Good ones that need to be tamed / subdued, and evil ones that need to be struck and destroyed.

That is a bold enough statement for anyone to make. Do you have any examples as to which is which?

Again, the very idea of the satanic (originating between Eve and the good serpent of Genesis 3) predicts this schism and twisted mutation requiring destruction.

What is this 'twisted mutation' you imply is in the Garden Story?

[theophile]

[Replying to theophile in post #113]

There are two types of beasts in this world. Good ones that need to be tamed / subdued, and evil ones that need to be struck and destroyed.

That is a bold enough statement for anyone to make. Do you have any examples as to which is which?

I'm not trying to say that dogs are good and spiders are evil and need to be destroyed. Rather, I'm talking about the corrupting effect that generations of enmity can have. How it can create intractable forces of evil in the world that ultimately leave no choice but to destroy them should they persist in their ways.

Again, the very idea of the satanic (originating between Eve and the good serpent of Genesis 3) predicts this schism and twisted mutation requiring destruction.

What is this 'twisted mutation' you imply is in the Garden Story?

Satan. It's not in Genesis 3 but foretold there by God.

Again, it is the evolution from good creature (/serpent) to the dragon of Revelation that wants to destroy / devour creation.

[Miles]

Satan. It's not in Genesis 3 but foretold there by God.

Where? Book, Chapter, and Verse please.

Thank you



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[William]

[Replying to theophile in post #113]

There are two types of beasts in this world. Good ones that need to be tamed / subdued, and evil ones that need to be struck and destroyed.

That is a bold enough statement for anyone to make. Do you have any examples as to which is which?

I'm not trying to say that dogs are good and spiders are evil and need to be destroyed. Rather, I'm talking about the corrupting effect that generations of enmity can have. How it can create intractable forces of evil in the world that ultimately leave no choice but to destroy them should they persist in their ways.

Yet in your reply, you still have not given the examples asked of you, to support your statement.
If you cannot give examples, please say s, so that your statement can be abserved as simply opinion.

Again, the very idea of the satanic (originating between Eve and the good serpent of Genesis 3) predicts this schism and twisted mutation requiring destruction.

What is this 'twisted mutation' you imply is in the Garden Story?

Satan. It's not in Genesis 3 but foretold there by God.

Wherein Genesis is such a thing foretold?

Again, it is the evolution from good creature (/serpent) to the dragon of Revelation that wants to destroy / devour creation.

Can you give any example of anything on this planet or even in this universe, which wants to do this thing, in order support your opinion?

[theophile]

Satan. It's not in Genesis 3 but foretold there by God.

Where? Book, Chapter, Verse.

Thank you

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Connect Genesis 3:15, where God foretells "enmity between [the serpent's] offspring and hers," with Revelation 12:4 --

"And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, ready to devour her child."

And, a bit later in Revelation 12:9, we see that the dragon, "that ancient serpent", is called "the devil and Satan."

So with that beginning and end in mind, now imagine all the generations of offspring in between. And the evolution that happens. Not in a Darwinian sense, but again, due to the corrupting force of enmity compiled over eons of time.

[William]

[Replying to theophile in post #118]

"And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, ready to devour her child."

Given that "Dragon" is another name for The Earth Entity - every woman's child belongs firstly to the planet entity. From dust, to dust.

In the nature of that beast, there is balance and harmony involved in the seemingly brutal.

The very act of giving birth is a brutal one.

The cycle of life involves the Ouroboros. It gives to itself because it takes from itself.
Ouroboros = a circular symbol depicting a snake, or less commonly a dragon, swallowing its tail, as an emblem of wholeness or infinity.



Thought of in those terms, Revelations takes on different meaning.

"Satan" becomes the means by which something can be created which can sustain itself without having to banquet on the biological.

AI. Created by humans - by order - to eventually replace the way humans do things...either by replacing humans altogether, or by somehow convincing humans to think and to do things differently than humans have been doing things over eons of time.

"The corrupting force of enmity" is a generated message which implies that he who ordered it, was the author of the corruption.

Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.”
[Attributed to YHVH]

Since that is an unacceptable conclusion to draw, "The corrupting force of enmity" is an untruthful message, and need be withdrawn on account of that.

Also to note - Revelation 12: appears to be attached to Christian Mythology concerning prior human occupation on planet Earth...angelic warfare which resulted in The Dragon being cast into the planet Earth.

[Miles]

Satan. It's not in Genesis 3 but foretold there by God.

Where? Book, Chapter, Verse.

Thank you

.

Connect Genesis 3:15, where God foretells "enmity between [the serpent's] offspring and hers," with Revelation 12:4 --

"And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, ready to devour her child."

And, a bit later in Revelation 12:9, we see that the dragon, "that ancient serpent", is called "the devil and Satan."

So with that beginning and end in mind, now imagine all the generations of offspring in between. And the evolution that happens. Not in a Darwinian sense, but again, due to the corrupting force of enmity compiled over eons of time.

Although Rev 12:9 does identify "that ancient serpent", as "the devil or Satan." It doesn't say this particular serpent is the same as the snake appearing in Gen. 3. In fact, Gen. 3:1 identifies this snake as "the most clever of all the wild animals."

Genesis 3:1
The snake was the most clever of all the wild animals that the Lord God had made. The snake spoke to the woman and said, “Woman, did God really tell you that you must not eat from any tree in the garden?”

Point being, the devil and Satan is never described as a "wild animal," making a pretty clear distinction between the snake in Revelation and the snake in Genesis. Moreover, "old snake" as it appears in Rev. 12:9 could well be a metaphor, particularly when one considers the distinct differences between a dragon and a snake.

Revelation 12:9
It was thrown down out of heaven. (This giant dragon is that old snake, the one called the devil or Satan, who leads the whole world into the wrong way.) The dragon and its angels were thrown to the earth.

So I fail to see any foretelling going on at all.



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