Not created equal

Argue for and against Christianity

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nobspeople
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Not created equal

Post #1

Post by nobspeople »

Seems JWs aren't christian, according to this:

https://murraycampbell.net/2020/06/22/n ... christian/

From the link:
"I said, “BTW Jehovah’s Witnesses are not a church. They have nothing to do with Christianity & neither do they describe their communities as a church”."

:shock:

From here:
https://www.quora.com/Why-arent-Jehovah ... ominations

"The problem with Jehovah’s Witness is that it was fundamentally an apocalypse movement; Nelson H. Barbour and Charles Taze Russell published Three Worlds, a book that claimed that it could be determined when the world was going to end. In 1877, it was claimed that the world would end in 1914."


Here is a back-n-forth for reading at your leisure that may be important to the topic at hand
http://home.snu.edu/~hculbert/jehovah.htm


There seems to be something about humanity that fosters differences rather than similarities - might be human nature (?).
Seems religion and other organizations tend to be bred from this necessity for differences.

If god created everyone, and wants everyone to 'be with him for eternity' (for those that believe that) why would it allow such divisiveness, especially among fellow believers?

For discussion:

God allows this divisiveness - maybe even promotes it - or is it a result of the 'famously god given' free will?
Or, like seemingly everything else, is it all satan, and god just sits back and cries 'foul'?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Not created equal

Post #11

Post by Avoice »

[Replying to Miles in post #9]
Because God said he is not a man. Neither are we to create an image

You are quoting the new testament. Which is fine. But whatever claims are made in the NT MUST Be upheld by the Hebrew Scriptures and they are not

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Re: Not created equal

Post #12

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Jesus himself said he was the son of God, never did he say "I am Almighty God (YHWH)"

1. John 10:30
“The Father and I are one.”
DEBUNKED
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 76#p935476

2. Philippians 2:5-6
“You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had. Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.”
DEBUNKED
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 98#p872798


3. John 1:18
“No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.“

4. Colossians 2:9-10
“For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily. and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.“
DEBUNKED
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 1#p1007521

5. 1 John 5:20
“And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him [YHWH] who is true; and we are in him [YHWH] who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He [YHWH] is the true God and eternal life.“

6. John 20:27-28
“Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.” Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
DEBUNKED
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 99#p917799


7. Acts 20:28
“Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.“
DEBUNKED
viewtopic.php?p=1070120#p1070120


.

To learn more please go to to other posts related to ...

GOD, JESUS and ...THE "TRINITY TEXTS" DEBUNKED
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Tue Mar 08, 2022 10:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Not created equal

Post #13

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Acts 20:28 - NAS

"... shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood."





TOU IDIOU: HIS OWN BLOOD or THE BLOOD OF HIS OWN?

" Lit[erally] 'the blood of his own one,' a term of endearment (such as 'his own dear one,' referring to his own son)." - The NIV Study Bible [footnote] , 1985.

"something should be said about the use of [ho idios, which includes tou idiou] without a noun expressed. This occurs in Jn 1:11, 13:1; Ac 4:23, 24:23. In the papyri we find the singular used thus as a term of endearment to near relations .... In Expos. vi. iii. 277 I ventured to cite this as a possible encouragement to those (including B. Weiss) who would translate Acts 20:28 `the blood of one who was his own.'" - J. H. Moulton, A Grammar of New Testament Greek, Vol. 1 (Prolegomena), 1930 ed., p. 90.
"Instead of the usual meaning of dia tou haimatos tou idiou [`through the blood of the own'], it is possible that the writer of Acts intended his readers to understand the expression to mean `with the blood of his Own.' (It is not necessary to suppose, with Hort, that huiou may have dropped out after tou idiou, though palaeographically such an omission would have been easy.) This absolute use of ho idios is found in Greek papyri as a term of endearment referring to near relatives. It is possible, therefore, that `his Own' (ho idios) was a title which early Christians gave to Jesus, comparable to `the Beloved'." - And A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament, p. 481

ACTS 20:28b ALTERNATIVE TRANSLATIONS
Contemporary English Version

...Be like shepherds to God's church. It is the flock he bought with the blood of his own Son
NET Bible
Watch out for yourselves and for all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God that he obtained with the blood of his own Son.
New Revised Standard Version
Keep watch over yourselves and over all the flock, of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God that he obtained with the blood of his own Son
NEW WORLD TRANSLATION

shepherd the congregation of God, which he purchased with the blood of his own Son.
To learn more please go to to other posts related to ...

GOD, JESUS and ...THE "TRINITY TEXTS" DEBUNKED
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Not created equal

Post #14

Post by Miles »

Avoice wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 8:43 pm [Replying to Miles in post #9]
Because God said he is not a man.
Not that I believe he is, but where does he say so?

You are quoting the new testament. Which is fine. But whatever claims are made in the NT MUST Be upheld by the Hebrew Scriptures and they are not
So, what do you do with John 1:18, John 10:30, John 20:27-28, 1 John 5:20, Philippians 2:5-6, Colossians 2:9-10, and Acts 20:28? Simply pretend they don't exist?


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Re: Not created equal

Post #15

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 9:13 pm Jesus himself said he was the son of God, never did he say "I am Almighty God (YHWH)"

1. John 10:30
“The Father and I are one.”
DEBUNKED
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 76#p935476

2. Philippians 2:5-6
“You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had. Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.”
DEBUNKED
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 98#p872798


3. John 1:18
“No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.“

4. Colossians 2:9-10
“For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily. and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.“
DEBUNKED
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 1#p1007521

5. 1 John 5:20
“And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him [YHWH] who is true; and we are in him [YHWH] who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He [YHWH] is the true God and eternal life.“

6. John 20:27-28
“Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.” Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
DEBUNKED
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 99#p917799


7. Acts 20:28
“Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.“
DEBUNKED
viewtopic.php?p=1070120#p1070120

.

3. John 1:18
“No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.“



John 1:1

1 Before the world began, the Word[a] was there. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Footnotes
[a] John 1:1 Word The Greek word is “ logos,” meaning any kind of communication. It could be translated “message.” Here, it describes Jesus Christ before he was sent to earth as a human being, which is the way God chose to tell the world about himself. Also in verses 10, 14, 16.
source


Others considered Jesus to be god.

John 20:27-28

“Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.” Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!


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Re: Not created equal

Post #16

Post by JehovahsWitness »

JESUS "A GOD" BUT NOT EQUAL IN POWER, POSITION OR AGE TO ALMIGHTY GOD YHWH, THE FATHER

Miles wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 3:50 am



John 1:1

1 Before the world began, the Word[a] was there. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.


Miles wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 3:50 am
John 20:27-28
“Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.” Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!

Others considered Jesus to be god
DEBUNKED
viewtopic.php?p=979091#p979091

Jesus is a god, he is just not ALMIGHTY GOD YHWH , the supreme ruler of the universe ; nor did he, Thomas or anyone indicate he (Jesus/The Word) is or ever will be equal to that one.

To learn more please go to to other posts related to ...

GOD, JESUS and ...THE "TRINITY TEXTS" DEBUNKED
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Not created equal

Post #17

Post by Difflugia »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 9:13 pmDEBUNKED
I read through your "debunkings" and you're just asserting that your alternate theological readings are correct. Perhaps you need a more complete dictionary, but simply disagreeing with something isn't the same as having "debunked" it.
My pronouns are he, him, and his.

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Re: Not created equal

Post #18

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Difflugia wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:01 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 9:13 pmDEBUNKED
I read through your "debunkings" and you're just asserting that your alternate theological readings are correct.
Well, yes.. of course. You may take each specific assertion (which usually is referenced to an expert conclusion based on the original Greek) and /or a contextual support for said conclusion, and (refering to the same Greek and context) present specific counter arguments to each point, if you wish.

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INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Not created equal

Post #19

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:41 am JESUS "A GOD" BUT NOT EQUAL IN POWER, POSITION OR AGE TO ALMIGHTY GOD YHWH, THE FATHER

Miles wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 3:50 am



John 1:1

1 Before the world began, the Word[a] was there. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Don't have the faintest idea why you're bringing up "divine" when none of the 62 bibles I checked, plus your own NWT, use the word in John 1:1.



Miles wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 3:50 am
John 20:27-28
“Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.” Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!

Others considered Jesus to be god
NOT DEBUNKED
viewtopic.php?p=979091#p979091

Jesus is a god, he is just not ALMIGHTY GOD YHWH , the supreme ruler of the universe ; nor did he, Thomas or anyone indicate he (Jesus/The Word) is or ever will be equal to that one.
As long as one postulates there are two gods. Yeah, sure. :roll: Gotta say this is a new one on me. A BIG GOD and a little god :shock:

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Re: Not created equal

Post #20

Post by Avoice »

[Replying to Miles in post #14]

What do I do with those verses in the new testament? What do I need them for? God gave man his instructions. Why would I listen to another voice? Seriously, what for? The promise of eternal life....why that's the oldest trick in the book.

What do you do with what is written in the Mormon bible? Do you believe the Mormon bible? If not, why not? Have to have a reason

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