https://theweek.com/articles/551027/how ... d-children
Please read the article before answering or debating the question.
Did Christianity invent children?
Did Christianity invent children?
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- Wootah
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Did Christianity invent children?
Post #1Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.
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"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image ."
Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826
"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image ."
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Re: Did Christianity invent children?
Post #11It takes children to grow to adulthood and create christianity, so NO, christianity didn't 'invent' children. It's beyond absurd to suggest that.
The article seems to be implying that christianty, in some fashion, invented the idea that children are 'special' (or at the very least, not a 'lowly' as other areas of society seemed to deem them at some point in time), which is entirely different than 'inventing children'.
Why the apparent need to try to elevate christianty into some beloved, 'children producing wonderment' is very telling.
The article seems to be implying that christianty, in some fashion, invented the idea that children are 'special' (or at the very least, not a 'lowly' as other areas of society seemed to deem them at some point in time), which is entirely different than 'inventing children'.
Why the apparent need to try to elevate christianty into some beloved, 'children producing wonderment' is very telling.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!
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Re: Did Christianity invent children?
Post #12I think you make a good point - There is at least evidence that Jesus spoke about Children in a way which was contrary to the manner in which they were commonly treated.1213 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 10, 2022 1:28 amI think the question should have been, did Christianity give value or appreciation for children. I think the article is about that. And I think it has a good point. It really seems to be so that without Christianity, children are barely seen even as humans. They can be aborted easily and they can be groomed and used as sex slaves, when they have no value.Wootah wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 6:01 pm https://theweek.com/articles/551027/how ... d-children
Please read the article before answering or debating the question.
Did Christianity invent children?
But, unfortunately inside of Christianity there is also people who don't appreciate and love children. But at least the teachings of Christianity appreciate and show love to children.
It appears that the 'invention' has to do with this idea - but whether it was the sole product of Jesus or Christianity, isn't really an important issue therein...Adults are simply grown up Children, so how they were treated as Children is often how they treat other humans, so the idea of changing that by introducing other ways of thinking, is geared toward helping humans appreciate one another rather than abusing one another.
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Re: Did Christianity invent children?
Post #13A surprisingly good point that's been made.William wrote: ↑Mon Apr 11, 2022 6:10 pmI think you make a good point - There is at least evidence that Jesus spoke about Children in a way which was contrary to the manner in which they were commonly treated.1213 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 10, 2022 1:28 amI think the question should have been, did Christianity give value or appreciation for children. I think the article is about that. And I think it has a good point. It really seems to be so that without Christianity, children are barely seen even as humans. They can be aborted easily and they can be groomed and used as sex slaves, when they have no value.Wootah wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 6:01 pm https://theweek.com/articles/551027/how ... d-children
Please read the article before answering or debating the question.
Did Christianity invent children?
But, unfortunately inside of Christianity there is also people who don't appreciate and love children. But at least the teachings of Christianity appreciate and show love to children.
It appears that the 'invention' has to do with this idea - but whether it was the sole product of Jesus or Christianity, isn't really an important issue therein...Adults are simply grown up Children, so how they were treated as Children is often how they treat other humans, so the idea of changing that by introducing other ways of thinking, is geared toward helping humans appreciate one another rather than abusing one another.
Matthew 18
But, that could also mean 'not thinking', as children are prone to following and just 'doing' more so than or before 'thinking'.
So maybe it's has a different meaning as well?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!
- William
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Re: Did Christianity invent children?
Post #14I do not understand what it is you are conveying there.nobspeople wrote: ↑Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:18 pmA surprisingly good point that's been made.William wrote: ↑Mon Apr 11, 2022 6:10 pmI think you make a good point - There is at least evidence that Jesus spoke about Children in a way which was contrary to the manner in which they were commonly treated.1213 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 10, 2022 1:28 amI think the question should have been, did Christianity give value or appreciation for children. I think the article is about that. And I think it has a good point. It really seems to be so that without Christianity, children are barely seen even as humans. They can be aborted easily and they can be groomed and used as sex slaves, when they have no value.Wootah wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 6:01 pm https://theweek.com/articles/551027/how ... d-children
Please read the article before answering or debating the question.
Did Christianity invent children?
But, unfortunately inside of Christianity there is also people who don't appreciate and love children. But at least the teachings of Christianity appreciate and show love to children.
It appears that the 'invention' has to do with this idea - but whether it was the sole product of Jesus or Christianity, isn't really an important issue therein...Adults are simply grown up Children, so how they were treated as Children is often how they treat other humans, so the idea of changing that by introducing other ways of thinking, is geared toward helping humans appreciate one another rather than abusing one another.
Matthew 18
But, that could also mean 'not thinking', as children are prone to following and just 'doing' more so than or before 'thinking'.
So maybe it's has a different meaning as well?
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Re: Did Christianity invent children?
Post #15Faith of a child, the bible speaks of (paraphrased).William wrote: ↑Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:52 pmI do not understand what it is you are conveying there.nobspeople wrote: ↑Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:18 pmA surprisingly good point that's been made.William wrote: ↑Mon Apr 11, 2022 6:10 pmI think you make a good point - There is at least evidence that Jesus spoke about Children in a way which was contrary to the manner in which they were commonly treated.1213 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 10, 2022 1:28 amI think the question should have been, did Christianity give value or appreciation for children. I think the article is about that. And I think it has a good point. It really seems to be so that without Christianity, children are barely seen even as humans. They can be aborted easily and they can be groomed and used as sex slaves, when they have no value.Wootah wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 6:01 pm https://theweek.com/articles/551027/how ... d-children
Please read the article before answering or debating the question.
Did Christianity invent children?
But, unfortunately inside of Christianity there is also people who don't appreciate and love children. But at least the teachings of Christianity appreciate and show love to children.
It appears that the 'invention' has to do with this idea - but whether it was the sole product of Jesus or Christianity, isn't really an important issue therein...Adults are simply grown up Children, so how they were treated as Children is often how they treat other humans, so the idea of changing that by introducing other ways of thinking, is geared toward helping humans appreciate one another rather than abusing one another.
Matthew 18
But, that could also mean 'not thinking', as children are prone to following and just 'doing' more so than or before 'thinking'.
So maybe it's has a different meaning as well?
But children don't often think before they act.
They act
They follow
So maybe (I know you hate that word) what was spoken about above, or it could also mean (maybe) to act without thinking - just follow.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!
- William
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Re: Did Christianity invent children?
Post #16As I understand it, if there is some almost indelible psychologically damage of an adult which are sourced in childhood trauma then the thinking processes of such adults are too influenced by those trauma to be of any practical use in helping to fix the problem.nobspeople wrote: ↑Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:57 pmFaith of a child, the bible speaks of (paraphrased).William wrote: ↑Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:52 pmI do not understand what it is you are conveying there.nobspeople wrote: ↑Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:18 pmA surprisingly good point that's been made.William wrote: ↑Mon Apr 11, 2022 6:10 pmI think you make a good point - There is at least evidence that Jesus spoke about Children in a way which was contrary to the manner in which they were commonly treated.1213 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 10, 2022 1:28 amI think the question should have been, did Christianity give value or appreciation for children. I think the article is about that. And I think it has a good point. It really seems to be so that without Christianity, children are barely seen even as humans. They can be aborted easily and they can be groomed and used as sex slaves, when they have no value.Wootah wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 6:01 pm https://theweek.com/articles/551027/how ... d-children
Please read the article before answering or debating the question.
Did Christianity invent children?
But, unfortunately inside of Christianity there is also people who don't appreciate and love children. But at least the teachings of Christianity appreciate and show love to children.
It appears that the 'invention' has to do with this idea - but whether it was the sole product of Jesus or Christianity, isn't really an important issue therein...Adults are simply grown up Children, so how they were treated as Children is often how they treat other humans, so the idea of changing that by introducing other ways of thinking, is geared toward helping humans appreciate one another rather than abusing one another.
Matthew 18
But, that could also mean 'not thinking', as children are prone to following and just 'doing' more so than or before 'thinking'.
So maybe it's has a different meaning as well?
But children don't often think before they act.
They act
They follow
So maybe (I know you hate that word) what was spoken about above, or it could also mean (maybe) to act without thinking - just follow.
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Re: Did Christianity invent children?
Post #17The notion that Christianity was the first religion to value children seems to be hogwash:
https://theconversation.com/children-in ... day-120490
https://theconversation.com/children-in ... day-120490
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Re: Did Christianity invent children?
Post #18And there is no reason to think that humans universally mistreated children before they invented religions and gods.Athetotheist wrote: ↑Tue Apr 12, 2022 8:34 pm The notion that Christianity was the first religion to value children seems to be hogwash:
https://theconversation.com/children-in ... day-120490
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I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
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Re: Did Christianity invent children?
Post #19I don't see anyone disagreeing with that.William wrote: ↑Tue Apr 12, 2022 3:33 pmAs I understand it, if there is some almost indelible psychologically damage of an adult which are sourced in childhood trauma then the thinking processes of such adults are too influenced by those trauma to be of any practical use in helping to fix the problem.nobspeople wrote: ↑Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:57 pmFaith of a child, the bible speaks of (paraphrased).William wrote: ↑Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:52 pmI do not understand what it is you are conveying there.nobspeople wrote: ↑Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:18 pmA surprisingly good point that's been made.William wrote: ↑Mon Apr 11, 2022 6:10 pmI think you make a good point - There is at least evidence that Jesus spoke about Children in a way which was contrary to the manner in which they were commonly treated.1213 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 10, 2022 1:28 amI think the question should have been, did Christianity give value or appreciation for children. I think the article is about that. And I think it has a good point. It really seems to be so that without Christianity, children are barely seen even as humans. They can be aborted easily and they can be groomed and used as sex slaves, when they have no value.Wootah wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 6:01 pm https://theweek.com/articles/551027/how ... d-children
Please read the article before answering or debating the question.
Did Christianity invent children?
But, unfortunately inside of Christianity there is also people who don't appreciate and love children. But at least the teachings of Christianity appreciate and show love to children.
It appears that the 'invention' has to do with this idea - but whether it was the sole product of Jesus or Christianity, isn't really an important issue therein...Adults are simply grown up Children, so how they were treated as Children is often how they treat other humans, so the idea of changing that by introducing other ways of thinking, is geared toward helping humans appreciate one another rather than abusing one another.
Matthew 18
But, that could also mean 'not thinking', as children are prone to following and just 'doing' more so than or before 'thinking'.
So maybe it's has a different meaning as well?
But children don't often think before they act.
They act
They follow
So maybe (I know you hate that word) what was spoken about above, or it could also mean (maybe) to act without thinking - just follow.
My comment was children tend to DO before THINKING more so than adults.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!
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Re: Did Christianity invent children?
Post #20That's very true and that's all the more reason to consider the question in this context. The question isn't about all children anymore than it's about whether the mother monkey ought to protect the baby crabs. I would consider the debate question's answer to be yes if it imparted most of the current value to the children of those it was meant to protect.
And I think it probably did add some, but as others have said, mammals love and care for their offspring innately, especially primates because they tend to have so few. The idea that people just plopped 'em out and let them sink or swim before the Bible is a little absurd.
Animals that have very many offspring tend to employ the spray and pray strategy, making as many as possible and not caring for them because they couldn't possibly. This crab can have up to 700,000 babies at once.
Most mammals are the opposite of spray and pray. This primate only has one baby, and her strategy is to protect it and make sure it reaches adulthood.