What is ' consciousness ' ?

[Thomas123]

This word appears to be at the centre of many discussions on this forum. It also appears to mean different things to different people and, therein lies the root of our miscommunication. What range and definement do you attribute to, ' consciousness ' ?

Is there an external consciousness in the world?. Can I tune into a shared consciousness. I am listening to Prime Minister's Question Time, ....is Boris tuned into a universal human consciousness as he delivers his address. Is his brain working ,simultaneously and in tandem with my own consciousness and with that of others?

[William]

The inability of other animals to think at this level is a matter of degree ... their brains are not sufficiently developed to have the same capability our brains do, but they do think and make decisions, etc. The very fact that our mental capabilities compared to "lower" animals is so much higher is one of the primary reasons a lot of people think we are special and therefore must have been created by a god being.

This observation is a similar mistake to thinking humans are the only critter with consciousness/self awareness/intelligence.
For sure, what you say may be the case with some folk, but certainly not with all folk.
I myself think that all life on this planet was consciously created by the planet, and that the planet acts as a brain in that regard.
Others might not see it the same way, and for some, this might simply be because they do not like to think that anything is more creative and intelligent than a human being, but not all folk who do not think the planet is a self aware creator god-being, can be shoved into the one categorical reason for thinking that way.

But the evidence shows that we evolved from earlier primates in a very bushy evolutionary process, with a rapid (in evolutionary terms) expansion in brain size, structure and capability being a key part of that. And no one said physically bigger brains means a more intelligent creature ... a sperm whale's brain is about 8000 cc compared to a human's brain at about 1300 cc.

There is also no evidence I know of that shows a sperm whale is less intelligent than a human.

[Tcg]

There is also no evidence I know of that shows a sperm whale is less intelligent than a human.

Given that no other mammals (that I am aware of) systematically destroy their own and other's environments, there is plenty of reason to think that, at least of some ways, other mammals are more intelligent than us. Of course, perhaps it could be argued that other mammals haven't yet developed the intelligence to do so. That would leave us in the position to contemplate the value of intelligence. I personally think that dolphins got it goin' on. Smart enough to develop and maintain family bonds. Smart enough to introduce themselves with their name. "Dumb" enough to not know how to destroy the oceans.


Tcg

[2ndRateMind]

There is also no evidence I know of that shows a sperm whale is less intelligent than a human.

Given that no other mammals (that I am aware of) systematically destroy their own and other's environments, there is plenty of reason to think that, at least of some ways, other mammals are more intelligent than us. Of course, perhaps it could be argued that other mammals haven't yet developed the intelligence to do so. That would leave us in the position to contemplate the value of intelligence. I personally think that dolphins got it goin' on. Smart enough to develop and maintain family bonds. Smart enough to introduce themselves with their name. "Dumb" enough to not know how to destroy the oceans.


Tcg

Interesting, Tcg. What are you personally doing to mitigate the effects of global warming, for example? And do you think dolphins are even aware of the threat?

Best wishes, 2RM.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to DrNoGods in post #120]

You're still referring to intelligence and the capability of abstract thought, rather than consciousness (as others have also pointed out). Humans evolved a very complex and capable brain, which gives us the ability to contemplate the origins of life and the universe, our place in it, the existence of god beings and their characteristics, life after death, and all sorts of other things that humans are capable of due to our complex brains.

You say that the human brain is more developed, but you do not say what about the human brain is more developed.

Aristotle explained like this.

It isn’t brain circuitry that renders humans capable of language and animals incapable. As Aristotle pointed out two millennia ago, abstract thought is inherently an immaterial power—it is the immaterial aspect of the human soul. Animals have material souls, without an immaterial aspect. It is the nature of, and the differences between, animal and human souls that provide animals with symbolic communication and grace man with language. https://mindmatters.ai/2019/03/the-real ... ngs-speak/

Why is it that bigger brains do not lead to more intelligence? Why is it that sperm whale cannot do complex mathematics in there head?

You say that man evolved this ability. In many ways my dog is more trainable and intelligent than a chimpanzee would be.

You seem to believe that this difference in consciences is because of evolution but you have no proof this is the case. Why is there such a gulf between man and primate? If your thesis of evolution is correct the we should see species whose vocal ability and thought pattern are just a little lower than humans. But that thought in the past led to racism.

[JoeyKnothead]

Animals cannot contemplate their place in the universe as a human can.

Are you Doctor Doolittle, that you can tell us all what it is other critters might be thinking?

Your best argument here'll only ever be speculation.

Bigger brains do always mean smarter. https://theconversation.com/mammals-bra ... ter-159141

You say bigger brains always means smarter.

The text of your link, just the link, says otherwise.

The observer's left to ponder the ramifications of the two conflicting statements.

...
Humanity is unique in all the universe.
...

Such a claim's more indicative of pride, than of fact.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to brunumb in post #118]

You don't get to define consciousness. All your points do no more than highlight differences in level of intelligence. Not the same thing.

What evolved in man that gave them the abilities that they have? All brains generally work the same way. They are simply chemical reactions that are occurring because of of some sensory input. What changed about in the brain of man that gave him the ability to have deep complex abstract thoughts.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to William in post #119]

If one slows down and smells the roses one can even detect signs of self-consciousness in the insects.

NO, you can't. That would be ones imagination.

[nobspeople]

[Replying to William in post #119]

If one slows down and smells the roses one can even detect signs of self-consciousness in the insects.

NO, you can't. That would be ones imagination.

Much like experiencing god in the trees, clouds or 'the heart'

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #128]

Much like experiencing god in the trees, clouds or 'the heart'

How are you defining heart? Then I may agree with you.

[nobspeople]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #128]

Much like experiencing god in the trees, clouds or 'the heart'

How are you defining heart? Then I may agree with you.

The 'heart' where many believers claim they 'feel' or 'sense' god. In general, it could also mean any way one experiences god personally.