I would very much like to get opinions on this subject. I'll provide several verses from the King James Version of the Bible, and I ask you to give me feed-back.
Jesus' words:
1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)
2) "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)
3) "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42)
He replied, after the Pharisees accused him of making himself God:
4) "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON of God?" (John 10:36)
5) "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say....Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50)
6) To his Father in prayer: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God , and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)
7) "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)
To John in the Revelation:
8) "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God..." (Revelation 3:12)
Do these quotations show that Jesus was NOT God?
Do YOU believe that he claimed to be God?
JESUS IS NOT GOD
Moderator: Moderators
- onewithhim
- Savant
- Posts: 9240
- Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
- Location: Norwich, CT
- Has thanked: 1262 times
- Been thanked: 329 times
-
- Sage
- Posts: 906
- Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:33 am
- Location: In the heavenlies in Christ
- Has thanked: 3 times
- Been thanked: 6 times
Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD
Post #411Well just know, you said it not I.onewithhim wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 1:46 pmYou made it implicit. Your reasoning gives us no other conclusion to draw than Jesus is his own Son.Brightfame52 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:55 amWell if I havent said it, dont project it that I did, thats dishonesty. Jesus is Both God and Man scripture says. You haven't disproved it either.Eloi wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:45 amYou haven't said it directly, but you make it implicit when you say that Jesus is God and at the same time the Son of God. They are contradictory statements that lead to the ridiculous idea that God is also his own Son.Brightfame52 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:09 amWhere did I say God was His Own Son ?onewithhim wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:43 amThen how can God be his own Son?Brightfame52 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:25 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #401]
Not one of those scriptures disprove Jesus is God, but they Identify Him as the Son of God, the Man Mediator.
When people neglect the logic of thought, the least they produce is rational thinking. They can no longer reason properly, and their statements become empty and meaningless.
- onewithhim
- Savant
- Posts: 9240
- Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
- Location: Norwich, CT
- Has thanked: 1262 times
- Been thanked: 329 times
Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD
Post #412Well just know that you have said it implicitly. We can draw no other conclusion from what you have said. Jesus is his own Son, according to your logic.Brightfame52 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 1:59 pmWell just know, you said it not I.onewithhim wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 1:46 pmYou made it implicit. Your reasoning gives us no other conclusion to draw than Jesus is his own Son.Brightfame52 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:55 amWell if I havent said it, dont project it that I did, thats dishonesty. Jesus is Both God and Man scripture says. You haven't disproved it either.Eloi wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:45 amYou haven't said it directly, but you make it implicit when you say that Jesus is God and at the same time the Son of God. They are contradictory statements that lead to the ridiculous idea that God is also his own Son.Brightfame52 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:09 amWhere did I say God was His Own Son ?onewithhim wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:43 amThen how can God be his own Son?Brightfame52 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:25 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #401]
Not one of those scriptures disprove Jesus is God, but they Identify Him as the Son of God, the Man Mediator.
When people neglect the logic of thought, the least they produce is rational thinking. They can no longer reason properly, and their statements become empty and meaningless.
-
- Under Probation
- Posts: 4242
- Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:51 am
- Has thanked: 181 times
- Been thanked: 470 times
Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD
Post #413Interesting. I guess you haven't debated the trinity very long.Brightfame52 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 1:58 pmNever heard of such2timothy316 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 11:19 amWhich trinity do you believe? The one where Jesus and His Father are equals in all respects or the trinity where they are not?Brightfame52 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:55 amWell if I havent said it, dont project it that I did, thats dishonesty. Jesus is Both God and Man scripture says. You haven't disproved it either.Eloi wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:45 amYou haven't said it directly, but you make it implicit when you say that Jesus is God and at the same time the Son of God. They are contradictory statements that lead to the ridiculous idea that God is also his own Son.Brightfame52 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:09 amWhere did I say God was His Own Son ?onewithhim wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:43 amThen how can God be his own Son?Brightfame52 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:25 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #401]
Not one of those scriptures disprove Jesus is God, but they Identify Him as the Son of God, the Man Mediator.
When people neglect the logic of thought, the least they produce is rational thinking. They can no longer reason properly, and their statements become empty and meaningless.
However, just so I will know going forward, which side do you fall under? Jesus and His Father are equals in every way at all times or are they not equals at all times in every way.
While you're answering...
Do you believe in the Catholic trinity or the protestant trinity? Or some other trinity? Before a debate can be made, we all need to know what favor of trinity you believe in. They are not the same. If you answer, "there is only one trinity" then please define the trinity.
-
- Sage
- Posts: 906
- Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:33 am
- Location: In the heavenlies in Christ
- Has thanked: 3 times
- Been thanked: 6 times
Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD
Post #414My understanding is the Trinity consist of 3 distinct beings or persons in the Godhead, not Two ! Father, Son/Word, and Holy Ghost !2timothy316 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 3:48 pmInteresting. I guess you haven't debated the trinity very long.Brightfame52 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 1:58 pmNever heard of such2timothy316 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 11:19 amWhich trinity do you believe? The one where Jesus and His Father are equals in all respects or the trinity where they are not?Brightfame52 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:55 amWell if I havent said it, dont project it that I did, thats dishonesty. Jesus is Both God and Man scripture says. You haven't disproved it either.Eloi wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:45 amYou haven't said it directly, but you make it implicit when you say that Jesus is God and at the same time the Son of God. They are contradictory statements that lead to the ridiculous idea that God is also his own Son.Brightfame52 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:09 amWhere did I say God was His Own Son ?onewithhim wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:43 amThen how can God be his own Son?Brightfame52 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:25 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #401]
Not one of those scriptures disprove Jesus is God, but they Identify Him as the Son of God, the Man Mediator.
When people neglect the logic of thought, the least they produce is rational thinking. They can no longer reason properly, and their statements become empty and meaningless.
However, just so I will know going forward, which side do you fall under? Jesus and His Father are equals in every way at all times or are they not equals at all times in every way.
While you're answering...
Do you believe in the Catholic trinity or the protestant trinity? Or some other trinity? Before a debate can be made, we all need to know what favor of trinity you believe in. They are not the same. If you answer, "there is only one trinity" then please define the trinity.
-
- Banned
- Posts: 1775
- Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:31 pm
- Has thanked: 43 times
- Been thanked: 214 times
- Contact:
Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD
Post #415I have heard something of that from some religious people. However, what they believe to be an explanation of a belief is only an attempt to explain something that doesn't make any sense; this is how it is perceived by those who listen to that supposed "explanation".Brightfame52 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 12:25 pmMy understanding is the Trinity consist of 3 distinct beings or persons in the Godhead, not Two ! Father, Son/Word, and Holy Ghost !
God cannot be a "Godhead" composed of three persons; that would be like giving a name to a group, and not precisely describing the person of God. In the Bible, GOD is not a group; He is ONE person and His name is Jehovah, the Father of Jesus.
-
- Under Probation
- Posts: 4242
- Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:51 am
- Has thanked: 181 times
- Been thanked: 470 times
Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD
Post #416You didn't answer my question. Is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit equal in every way at all times? This is a yes or no answer that is required.Brightfame52 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 12:25 pmMy understanding is the Trinity consist of 3 distinct beings or persons in the Godhead, not Two ! Father, Son/Word, and Holy Ghost !2timothy316 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 3:48 pmInteresting. I guess you haven't debated the trinity very long.Brightfame52 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 1:58 pmNever heard of such2timothy316 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 11:19 amWhich trinity do you believe? The one where Jesus and His Father are equals in all respects or the trinity where they are not?Brightfame52 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:55 amWell if I havent said it, dont project it that I did, thats dishonesty. Jesus is Both God and Man scripture says. You haven't disproved it either.Eloi wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:45 amYou haven't said it directly, but you make it implicit when you say that Jesus is God and at the same time the Son of God. They are contradictory statements that lead to the ridiculous idea that God is also his own Son.Brightfame52 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:09 amWhere did I say God was His Own Son ?onewithhim wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:43 amThen how can God be his own Son?Brightfame52 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:25 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #401]
Not one of those scriptures disprove Jesus is God, but they Identify Him as the Son of God, the Man Mediator.
When people neglect the logic of thought, the least they produce is rational thinking. They can no longer reason properly, and their statements become empty and meaningless.
However, just so I will know going forward, which side do you fall under? Jesus and His Father are equals in every way at all times or are they not equals at all times in every way.
While you're answering...
Do you believe in the Catholic trinity or the protestant trinity? Or some other trinity? Before a debate can be made, we all need to know what favor of trinity you believe in. They are not the same. If you answer, "there is only one trinity" then please define the trinity.
-
- Sage
- Posts: 906
- Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:33 am
- Location: In the heavenlies in Christ
- Has thanked: 3 times
- Been thanked: 6 times
Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD
Post #417They are One God, Yes2timothy316 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:27 pmYou didn't answer my question. Is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit equal in every way at all times? This is a yes or no answer that is required.Brightfame52 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 12:25 pmMy understanding is the Trinity consist of 3 distinct beings or persons in the Godhead, not Two ! Father, Son/Word, and Holy Ghost !2timothy316 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 3:48 pmInteresting. I guess you haven't debated the trinity very long.Brightfame52 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 1:58 pmNever heard of such2timothy316 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 11:19 amWhich trinity do you believe? The one where Jesus and His Father are equals in all respects or the trinity where they are not?Brightfame52 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:55 amWell if I havent said it, dont project it that I did, thats dishonesty. Jesus is Both God and Man scripture says. You haven't disproved it either.Eloi wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:45 amYou haven't said it directly, but you make it implicit when you say that Jesus is God and at the same time the Son of God. They are contradictory statements that lead to the ridiculous idea that God is also his own Son.Brightfame52 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:09 amWhere did I say God was His Own Son ?onewithhim wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:43 amThen how can God be his own Son?Brightfame52 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:25 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #401]
Not one of those scriptures disprove Jesus is God, but they Identify Him as the Son of God, the Man Mediator.
When people neglect the logic of thought, the least they produce is rational thinking. They can no longer reason properly, and their statements become empty and meaningless.
However, just so I will know going forward, which side do you fall under? Jesus and His Father are equals in every way at all times or are they not equals at all times in every way.
While you're answering...
Do you believe in the Catholic trinity or the protestant trinity? Or some other trinity? Before a debate can be made, we all need to know what favor of trinity you believe in. They are not the same. If you answer, "there is only one trinity" then please define the trinity.
-
- Under Probation
- Posts: 4242
- Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:51 am
- Has thanked: 181 times
- Been thanked: 470 times
Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD
Post #418Jesus, "Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider to be equal with God something to be grasped." - Philippians 2:6Brightfame52 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:20 amThey are One God, Yes2timothy316 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:27 pmYou didn't answer my question. Is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit equal in every way at all times? This is a yes or no answer that is required.Brightfame52 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 12:25 pmMy understanding is the Trinity consist of 3 distinct beings or persons in the Godhead, not Two ! Father, Son/Word, and Holy Ghost !2timothy316 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 3:48 pmInteresting. I guess you haven't debated the trinity very long.Brightfame52 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 1:58 pmNever heard of such2timothy316 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 11:19 amWhich trinity do you believe? The one where Jesus and His Father are equals in all respects or the trinity where they are not?Brightfame52 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:55 amWell if I havent said it, dont project it that I did, thats dishonesty. Jesus is Both God and Man scripture says. You haven't disproved it either.Eloi wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:45 amYou haven't said it directly, but you make it implicit when you say that Jesus is God and at the same time the Son of God. They are contradictory statements that lead to the ridiculous idea that God is also his own Son.
When people neglect the logic of thought, the least they produce is rational thinking. They can no longer reason properly, and their statements become empty and meaningless.
However, just so I will know going forward, which side do you fall under? Jesus and His Father are equals in every way at all times or are they not equals at all times in every way.
While you're answering...
Do you believe in the Catholic trinity or the protestant trinity? Or some other trinity? Before a debate can be made, we all need to know what favor of trinity you believe in. They are not the same. If you answer, "there is only one trinity" then please define the trinity.
Why doesn't Jesus consider himself to be equal with God?
- onewithhim
- Savant
- Posts: 9240
- Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
- Location: Norwich, CT
- Has thanked: 1262 times
- Been thanked: 329 times
Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD
Post #419[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #418]
Also, Jesus said, "The Father is greater than I am." (John 14:28)
.
Also, Jesus said, "The Father is greater than I am." (John 14:28)
.
- tigger 2
- Student
- Posts: 96
- Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 3:02 pm
- Has thanked: 76 times
- Been thanked: 40 times
Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD
Post #420Jesus, "Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider to be equal with God something to be grasped." - Philippians 2:6
Why doesn't Jesus consider himself to be equal with God?
...............................................
Actually, there is even more to this. The NT Greek word used here is harpagmos. This word means, not merely "grasped," but "seized violently." So, the more accurate rendering would be "did not consider equality with God something to be seized."
Why doesn't Jesus consider himself to be equal with God?
...............................................
Actually, there is even more to this. The NT Greek word used here is harpagmos. This word means, not merely "grasped," but "seized violently." So, the more accurate rendering would be "did not consider equality with God something to be seized."