Russia Attacks Ukraine

[Diogenes]

For the first time since 1939 a major European power, Russia, has attacked another country in Europe, Ukraine. We have not seen an analogous situation since Germany attacked Poland setting off World War 2. Surprisingly we have Neville Chamberlain like appeasement/isolationist responses from Donald Trump and Tucker Carlson. Besides the 180° turn from traditional Republican politics, to what extent are these events relevant to Christianity?

[AgnosticBoy]

What are you thoughts on the situation now that Russia has abandoned its assault on Kyiv and retreated from northern Ukraine?

My conclusion remains largely the same in that Ukraine has not defeated Russia. If "winning' involves taking back some cities, then sure Ukraine has had some success. But I'm skeptical of any complete or total victory given that Russia is not using it's full arsenal. Also, they are still fighting in Ukraine. Some may say that the Russians retreating from some areas is a sign of victory, but that may just be a tactic to regroup and restrategized their approach. If the latter, then Russia will try to advance again but do it another way. I would say Russia may even pause and try again at a later time but then I see Ukraine is escalating by attacking Russia on their homeland and getting more advanced weapons.

I think some are hoping for a Beirut Lebanon scenario where the Russians lose so many that they'll leave the country completely, but I'm skeptical of that. Ukraine is right on their doorstep, and I think the Russians are big on trying to send a message. So they'll stay and fight. My worry is that this will eventually lead to Russia using weapons of mass destruction (WMDs). And I suspect that once a Nuke is used, the US won't do anything (unless it is the target) militarily because no one will win in a nuclear exchange.

Revisiting Historia's question... I would say the latest developments seems to be just as I suspected. Russia is again stepping up its attacks which is consistent with the view that their pull back was not a complete defeat but just a way to reset and restrategize. I anticipate that Russia will make another run at Kyiv in the near future.

[Heart17]

https://rumble.com/v11pemp-mariupol-res ... lians.html


Civilians in Ukraine saying their own military shooting at them. It definitely seem genuine.
To create media propaganda of course. CNN will not ask for evidence.

Bidens handlers want this war i am told spiritually.

[Heart17]

https://www.workers.org/2021/01/54104/

"Despite the media talk of justice, new policy and diversity, behind the scenes the same old U.S. militarist policies are being reinforced through Biden’s cabinet choices and their direct ties to industry-funded think tanks and military contractors."

[Heart17]

https://www.infowars.com/posts/washingt ... n-ukraine/

"In an article about the potential for a peace deal between Ukraine and Russia, the Washington Post admits that some within NATO want to prolong the war for as long as possible."

[Heart17]

Looks like they killed this guy who have been exposing the western intelligence propaganda in Ukraine.



Is Patrick Lancaster next?

[Heart17]

But now we are supposed to trust these people?

https://www.axios.com/pandora-papers-po ... 24a9f.html

"The Ukrainian president may have pledged to reform the country's corrupt system of politics, but the Pandora Papers tell a different story.

Driving the news: Ukraine is the country with the highest number of politicians named in the leak of offshore data, which implicates hundreds of people linked to offshore companies — including President Volodymyr Zelensky."

[AgnosticBoy]

https://www.infowars.com/posts/washingt ... n-ukraine/

"In an article about the potential for a peace deal between Ukraine and Russia, the Washington Post admits that some within NATO want to prolong the war for as long as possible."

I don't believe that's for nefarious reasons, as in deliberately trying to start WWIII, because the Washington Post article also mentions this:

“Many of us have, and it’s absolutely human, a willingness to see that the war ends as soon as possible, that people are not suffering, not dying, and that there are no bombings,” said a senior European diplomat who, like others, spoke on the condition of anonymity to talk frankly about sensitive security issues. “There is an unfortunate dilemma. The problem is that if it ends now, there is a kind of time for Russia to regroup, and it will restart, under this or another pretext. Putin is not going to give up his goals.”

Some European countries, especially formerly communist ones with bitter memories of Russian invasion or occupation, are especially nervous about how the conflict will evolve, seeing themselves as next on the Kremlin’s target list. If Putin feels he has profited from the invasion, by winning territory, political concessions or other benefits, he may eventually be inspired to try the same thing against other neighbors, policymakers say.

One agreement I have is that a lot of countries, America included, wants to see Russia weakened, especially Putin. What I don't like is that some Western countries are okay with Ukraine escalating the war with Russia, but then they're not the ones doing the fighting knowing good and well that Ukraine does not stand a chance unless it gets some real significant support. Perhaps the real dilemma is that the West wants Ukraine to win, but they also don't want to get themselves involved in any direct confrontation with Russia.

[mgb]

But now we are supposed to trust these people?

https://www.axios.com/pandora-papers-po ... 24a9f.html

"The Ukrainian president may have pledged to reform the country's corrupt system of politics, but the Pandora Papers tell a different story.

Driving the news: Ukraine is the country with the highest number of politicians named in the leak of offshore data, which implicates hundreds of people linked to offshore companies — including President Volodymyr Zelensky."

From a moral point of view financial dodging is minute compared to the mass murder going on in Ukraine. There is corruption everywhere and there are neo nazis everywhere, including Russia. This whataboutery should not detract from the urgency in Ukraine.

[Diogenes]

https://www.infowars.com/posts/washingt ... n-ukraine/

"In an article about the potential for a peace deal between Ukraine and Russia, the Washington Post admits that some within NATO want to prolong the war for as long as possible."

I find it surprising that anyone would cite Infowars for anything close to resembling accurate reporting. Their 'take' on the Post article is not even close to being accurate. This is typical for Infowars and anything Jones is connected with.

InfoWars is an American far-right conspiracy theory and fake news website owned by Alex Jones.
.... The site has regularly published fake stories which have been linked to harassment of victims.
.... Jones has .... been suspended and banned from many platforms for violating their terms of service, including Facebook, Twitter, YouTube....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InfoWars
Citing Inforwars for anything signals a lack of evidence to support a proposition.
One can read the Post article oneself; there is no need to consider fake takes on what it says. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... its-peace/

[AgnosticBoy]

But now we are supposed to trust these people?

https://www.axios.com/pandora-papers-po ... 24a9f.html

"The Ukrainian president may have pledged to reform the country's corrupt system of politics, but the Pandora Papers tell a different story.

Driving the news: Ukraine is the country with the highest number of politicians named in the leak of offshore data, which implicates hundreds of people linked to offshore companies — including President Volodymyr Zelensky."

From a moral point of view financial dodging is minute compared to the mass murder going on in Ukraine. There is corruption everywhere and there are neo nazis everywhere, including Russia. This whataboutery should not detract from the urgency in Ukraine.

A valid point that I hear from Russian officials is that some Ukranians officials/soldiers are positioning themselves amongst civilians. That seems to be true in Mariupol since there are reports of children hiding with Ukranian fighters. If so, then not only is this a wrong on Russia if the civilians die, but it should also the Ukranians should be held accountable.

If you know that Russia will target military targets, then it makes no sense to deliberately position civilians among them, especially children. So at least, in that case, the Ukranians are not helping the situation and are responsible (in addition to Russia) for the killings of civilians.

And just to pre-empt any charge that I'm taking Russia's side, I will say that I go on a case-by-case basis. It's possible for Russia to be right in some cases. It's also possible for the West to be wrong in some cases. To expect otherwise is irrational and doesn't help international relations.