Meek*

[nobspeople]

Psalms 37:11
“But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.”

Is this supposed to be a motivating factor!? Do 'the meek' want to inherit the Earth? Seems it may be more work than it's worth. Unless god 'cleans' up the Earth first (which, with its anger and insecurity issues, it might just do).

For discussion:
What's the benefit of being 'meek' outside of 'planet ownership'?
Do the meek want the Earth?
How does one become and stay 'meek'?


*Thanks to william for the inspiration for the question

[William]

What is 'The Battle'?
Why not apply that to all situations then?

The battle I speak of is in convincing others I'm right when someone is whining that they are hurt to gain social power and status. I can't win and I don't care. Even if they are faking I would rather just give them what they want anyway.

Some battles can be won and others can't.

What I am learning as of late is that the game-play isn't about any real battle, or even about what is right and wrong.

If I am in a position where I 'cannot win' it is because I am not even looking to win. Anything else is a loss, even if I were to win some battles...

[Clownboat]

Because the quote and the promise mentioned in the OP are from Him and His Father. So it matters what He means by the word 'meek'.

(Even if you think that it is only men who wrote that, then it would still depend upon what THEY meant by the word 'meek'.)

I'm not addressing what Jesus may or may not have said about being meek. What he may or may not have said has no bearing on my thoughts on being meek.
Rulers want meek subjects and it would be no surprise to learn that religions would encourage meek followers. Claims of a having a rested soul, inheriting the earth and 72 virgins are the pies being offered if a person is meek enough to believe such claims.

But we can show what Christ and His Father have promised.

False, you can only point to a holy book that makes claims. Just like how millions justify receiving virgins after death. You reject receiving virgins but accepts that you will receive a rested soul. This reasoning is faulty.

That is enough for me. I know them (Christ and His Father) to be true; that is my personal experience, and I do not doubt any promise (nor do I even have a reason to doubt any promise).

Sorry Tam, but I'm an adult. You have faith in one of the many god concepts that many humans place faith in. What is it that you think makes you any different? Have you met this god or this Jesus?
In reality, we 'know' our friends. No one can 'know' the gods is this way. It's a statement made to bolster one's faith.

Could be 72 virgins, could be a rested soul, could be nothing. I don't pretent to know. It is only religious people that pretent to know such things.

You are at least pretending to know what another person can or cannot know.

I know it is only religious people that pretend to know such things. You know it as well, and so do our readers.
It's statements like this one from you that provide the evidence: "I know them (Christ and His Father) to be true"

When you decide to not address these claims,

Were you pretending to know that I would not address these claims when you wrote that? (I mean, seriously, you walked right into that.)

Nope, I was trying to get you to attempting a reply. Why did you fail only to show my words to be true?
Again:
- I'm addressing religious promises. 72 virgins and a rested soul specifically. Why should we believe either claim?

That being said, yes, being meek before God (and so also His Son) will help a person believe and accept the promise that God made.

Seems you walked into this one.
As my point has been from the beginning. Rulers want meek subjects.
From my very first post here: "Being easily imposed on and or submissive are desirable features rulers have over their subjects afterall."

You failed to address my claim and spoke about what some Jesus character is reported to have said in a book as if that had something to do with rulers wanting meek subjects. Bolded above though, you did provide evidence that what I claim is reality. So thanks for that.

[brunumb]

The point being that in the new world, nobody will be allowed to harm others or ruin the paradise. No criminals, no prisons, no burgler alarms, no trauma center, no racism, no sexual abuse, no war, no violence, no shocking pictures of bombs buildings in Ukraine, no pollution, no starvation, no cries of anguish, no suicides of dispair ...

No one is allowed to do that even now. But people do and that is why we have all those horrible things. Please explain how people will be prevented from doing any of that. Simply not be allowed to do it is obviously useless.

[brunumb]

What we can be confident about is that God will never again allow wicked people to cause harm for the righteous.

One has to wonder why a loving god would ever allow wicked people to cause harm for the righteous.

Unless you did allow it, how would you know who was wicked?

That suggests that God doesn't know everything. He has to let people hurt each other and cause misery so that he can sort the goodies from the baddies. Such a god is truly pathetic.

[JoeyKnothead]

What we can be confident about is that God will never again allow wicked people to cause harm for the righteous.

One has to wonder why a loving god would ever allow wicked people to cause harm for the righteous.

Unless you did allow it, how would you know who was wicked?

That suggests that God doesn't know everything. He has to let people hurt each other and cause misery so that he can sort the goodies from the baddies. Such a god is truly pathetic.

Maybe he could sub out the job to Santa.

Wishful thinking's nice and all, but dreaming of a better way ain't gonna get us there.

[nobspeople]

What we can be confident about is that God will never again allow wicked people to cause harm for the righteous.

One has to wonder why a loving god would ever allow wicked people to cause harm for the righteous.

Unless you did allow it, how would you know who was wicked?

That suggests that God doesn't know everything. He has to let people hurt each other and cause misery so that he can sort the goodies from the baddies. Such a god is truly pathetic.

And yet, people still flock and adhere to it.
Believers talk about free will and choice, yet they use their free will and choice to CHOOSE to over look how terrible their god actually is. They justify its actions (everyone that god killed was bad and evil, even the animals (which isn't even possible; a talking and burning bush that's not consumed is possible; everyone is sinful because a book written by men, that claims it's written or inspired by god, says so; and on and on) and accept the taking of life as even as they pontificate that 'all life is precious'.
Hypocrisy.
This says something about people who can look at all this and say 'meh, it's all good' and give this thing their money, time and lives! And then expect others to adhere to this same thing?!?!
Pathetic isn't even the best word to use for this action.

[tam]

Peace to you,

The point being that in the new world, nobody will be allowed to harm others or ruin the paradise. No criminals, no prisons, no burgler alarms, no trauma center, no racism, no sexual abuse, no war, no violence, no shocking pictures of bombs buildings in Ukraine, no pollution, no starvation, no cries of anguish, no suicides of dispair ...

No one is allowed to do that even now. But people do and that is why we have all those horrible things. Please explain how people will be prevented from doing any of that. Simply not be allowed to do it is obviously useless.

I wouldn't use the word 'allow'. It is not a matter of 'obey the law or die', for example. That is about fear, and it would fail.

Christ always spoke about what is inside a person, the inside of the cup - clean the inside of the cup and the outside will be clean as well. It will not be IN the people to do those things. Love is the law written upon the hearts of those invited into the Kingdom. See also the sheep and goats parable (where the sheep are invited in on the basis of the things they did - even unknowingly - for Christ). Not to mention the gratitude and the love that people will feel for God, for His Son, for the Kingdom and the gift of eternal life. If they didn't already, they will love because they were loved first. And the leaves of the Tree of Life are also for the healing of the nations (healing pain and illness, both physical and mental, even emotional). Who would not be grateful for that, for themselves and for their children, their loved ones?

That is about love. And it is love that never fails. (1Corinth 13:8, if anyone needs to see that in what is written)

And no one will be hungry, or in pain from mourning a loved one, or be victim of a crime or injustice (some differences between people may happen, at least at first since this will be quite an adjustment for some, but those will be resolved with wisdom from Christ, love, truth, forgiveness, mercy). Nor will sins of the flesh exist (things that cause pedophilia for instance), because the people in the Kingdom will receive a new body (one without the sin/error that causes things like pedophilia). And if you don't have to fear death (for you or anyone you love) - since there will be no reason for fear anything at all - fear is not going to cause you to hate, fear is not going to cause you to feel you must fight for resources in order to keep yourself and your loved ones alive.


(please note that not all who enter into the Kingdom were Christian: viewtopic.php?p=731804#p731804 ... even more reason to love God and to be grateful.)


And a as a personal example: If you are so filled with love, with gratitude, with joy, with peace, with the spirit, there is no room in you to even WANT to hate or hurt someone else. It just isn't in you. I have felt that, received from my Lord that love and joy and peace as fruits of the spirit (like fruit from the Tree of LIFE), and there is just no room for anything else, other than love. Love that you want to share. Love begets love.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[JehovahsWitness]

The point being that in the new world, nobody will be allowed to harm others or ruin the paradise. No criminals, no prisons, no burgler alarms, no trauma center, no racism, no sexual abuse, no war, no violence, no shocking pictures of bombs buildings in Ukraine, no pollution, no starvation, no cries of anguish, no suicides of dispair ...

Please explain how people will be prevented from doing any of that. ....

FIRSTLY PLEASE NOTE I make no claims here, I am simply expressing what I believe based on the bible. Please take all sentences to be preceeded by the premise "I believe ..."

HOW WILL THE NEW WORLD BE FREE FROM VIOLENCE AND SUFFERING?

Biblically, God can read hearts. If anyone has the intention to do such wicked things (and cannot be dissuaded) they will be destroyed (killed) before they can cause any harm.

ISAIAH 11:9

They will not cause any harm Or any ruin in all my holy mountain, because the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah as the waters cover the sea.

None of those things will exist They simply will not happen! The world will at long last, finally be free from suffering.

[Purple Knight]

Unless you did allow it, how would you know who was wicked?

That suggests that God doesn't know everything. He has to let people hurt each other and cause misery so that he can sort the goodies from the baddies. Such a god is truly pathetic.

That or it's unjust to punish people for what they would do rather than what they did do.

I admit that this is the general area where it falls apart for me, too. It falls apart unless free will really is magic and allows people to somehow surprise the all-knowing.

I once wrote a sort of Biblical fanfic along those lines, where we live in what's called the Entropic Wastes, a dimension of disorder and a dumping ground for evil souls to decay and fade away. The goal of a certain being was to save everyone, even the irredeemably evil, so the solution was to add a tiny spark of randomness to each soul, then shatter the Entropic Wastes into infinite multiverses and simply wait for each person to, at least once along their infinite timelines, do something his nature would not allow but for the randomness.

Essentially, we're all bad pennies that are on tails. Shake the box and you gets some heads.

It depends on what's possible.

If randomness is not possible - if conditions XYZ lead inevitably to the same outcome PQR - then free will does not exist. It can't.

But if free will exists, then omniscience of the future cannot exist.

The Bible says both, and there are limited ways to reconcile it. If I'm being generous though, I would rather reconcile by shaving the omniscience to fit, rather than by shaving free will to fit. We could say, for example, that God knows all possible outcomes across all universes but he doesn't know which one will manifest this time. I make this choice mainly because it's more entertaining that way, frankly, and for very little other reason.

The whole, well, you can, but you won't... and God already knows so... It's neither interesting nor entertaining, and more than that it still makes people deterministic despite the definitional attempt not to.

[brunumb]

Biblically, God can read hearts. If anyone has the intention to do such wicked things (and cannot be dissuaded) they will be destroyed (killed) before they can cause any harm.
........
None of those things will exist They simply will not happen! The world will at long last, finally be free from suffering.

You have to wonder what is keeping this god of love from acting now. No. It is all just wishful thinking. Sweeping all the suffering and misery under the rug and just pretending that everything will be good some time in the future. Such promises have kept people in line for ages, and still does. "Just wait until your father gets home".