Jesus (and Paul) thought the world was going to end soon. This is why Jesus told people to give away their possessions, and Paul taught people should not marry. Jesus spoke very specifically about the world ending in the lifetime of those he preached to. [I won't go into the verses, because it will spawn the usual verbal gymnastics about how he did not mean what he said]
Christians, for the most part, ignore the idea of not attaining wealth. They also ignore the admonition not to marry. They ignore these basic Christian teachings because they don't like them. Instead, they claim Jesus didn't really mean what he said about the end coming soon. This provides cover for getting married and accumulating wealth.
The question for debate is, "Why do most Christians marry and try to accumulate wealth despite the very clear New Testament admonitions to do the opposite?
Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth
and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal.
But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor
rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal.
__ Matthew 6:19-20
___________________________________
“Before You Embark On A Journey Of Revenge, Dig Two Graves”
— Confucius
You decline to refute the case I put forward, other than to twist the point.
How is stating a verifiable FACT "twisting the point"?
Jesus at no time is recorded as telling /instructing/commanding anyone but the rich young ruler to give away their belongings.
You're not just 'twisting' the point, you are changing it AND attempting to change scripture. The OP gives an example where Jesus is preaching to many, not just the 'rich young ruler':
"Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth
and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal.
But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor
rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal.
__ Matthew 6:19-20"
There are many other examples of this theme of Jesus, starting even before his ministry when John the Baptist comes to prepare the way. From Luke, chapter 3:
And the crowds asked him, “What then shall we do?” And he answered them, “Whoever has two tunics is to share with him who has none, and whoever has food is to do likewise.”
Obviously Jesus is not literally telling even the rich young ruler to walk around naked and to starve which would be the result of giving away everything he owned.
Jesus' theme is poverty is better than possessions because spirituality is more important than focusing on making treasure. And this call to poverty is even more urgent in the 'last days.'
And to boot, "JW" also opted to skip my last response in post #61
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 11:14 am
Molestation is a bad act. I do believe this point has been addressed.
It's a shame the JWs don't agree with your conclusion:
'There was no reprimand, nothing changed': Survivors criticise Jehovah's Witness elders for failing to act over child sexual abuse claims
This may be part of the reason so many JW's leave the church they were raised in.
Jehovah’s Witnesses have a low retention rate relative to other U.S. religious groups. Among all U.S. adults who were raised as Jehovah’s Witnesses, two-thirds (66%) no longer identify with the group. By contrast, about two-thirds of those who were raised as evangelical Protestants (65%) and Mormons (64%) still say they are members of those respective groups.
This may explain why JW's have to work so hard to proselytize for new members - to make up for the multitude that leaves.
Of course, there are other reasons they leave as well, such as education. JW's tend to be less well educated, but perhaps when the kids raised in that group attain more education than their parents, they leave.
Compared with other U.S. religious groups, Jehovah’s Witnesses tend to be less educated. A solid majority of adult Jehovah’s Witnesses (63%) have no more than a high school diploma, compared with, for example, 43% of evangelical Protestants and 37% of mainline Protestants.
Jehovah's Witnesses preach the good news of the Kingdom of God because it is a mandate that has been received since the first century (Mat. 28:18,19). The extent to which our work has reached is a sign that the time of the end of human rule is very near.
Mat. 24:14 And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
The facts, that only we can know, show that the largest percentage of people who stop being Witnesses is because they have committed sexual acts disapproved from God's point of view and want to continue living under their own rules.
A few have complaints about how our organization works, which is normal; Humility is required of God's people, and some cannot show it. A few, even fewer, believe they can change beliefs or practices to their liking, and because they can't, they become enemies of the organization.
In the Bible all these phenomena are mentioned.
1 John 2:18 Young children, it is the last hour, and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared, from which fact we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But they went out so that it might be shown that not all are of our sort.
The people that will inherit the earth when the bad people no longer exist, is a select people. The tests help cleanse it of impurities. However, many have the opportunity to come or to return to Jehovah while they have time.
JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 11:14 am
Molestation is a bad act.
It's a shame the [Jehovah's Witnesses] don't agree with your conclusion:
That is a false and slanderous statement. There is nothing in the Jehovah's Witness teachings or religious culture that presents molestation as anything but abhorrent and as one of Jehovah's Witnesses I resent the implication I hold beliefs that supports the harming of children or victimization of the innocent.
Again you miss the point. You are not personally being attacked and it is poor form to claim so.
The point is that in spite of what is preached, certain practitioners in many if not all faiths, violate their own beliefs and are very reluctant to report child sexual abuse when the perpetrator is one of their own. This has historically been true of the Roman Catholic hierarchy, as well as other denominations calling themselves 'Christian.'
If every allegation of child sexual abuse was simply reported by church leaders to appropriate authorities, the resulting positive impact would be immeasurable.
.... In the past decade, clergy of all denominations have been deeply criticized for failure to report child sexual abuse.
Various individuals, courts and the media around the world have raised concerns about the manner in which cases of child sexual abuse are handled when they occur in congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses.
....
In 2019, elders in New Zealand were told to destroy documents, causing survivors of child sex abuse to fear that cases will be covered up. The organization maintained that documents relevant to cases of abuse would not be destroyed.
The UK Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse was particularly critical of Jehovah's Witnesses' policy that there must be two witnesses to cases of abuse before elders would consider the allegation. IICSA maintained the policy overlooks the fact that "child sexual abuse is most often perpetrated in the absence of witnesses."
Jehovah's Witnesses are not known for sexual abuse of minors... These practices, which could happen in isolated cases, are neither allowed nor accepted in our organization. These practices do not characterize us as a community; we are not known for that. Whoever practices that, or other practices that violate Biblical principles, has to leave the organization... if he/she is not living a hidden life to the view of the rest of the community.
Jehovah's Witnesses are well known for a number of things:
1) our strict adherence to the Scriptures,
2) our worldwide preaching work,
3) our high principles about lying, violence, obedience to local laws, etc,
4) our refusal to take part in the political life of this world,
5) our stance on military practices and war,
6) our refusal to participate in patriotic acts; we are part of a spiritual government that is separate from the nations of this world and that does not divide people by race, nationality, etc.
7) our refusal of blood transfusions.
Eloi wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 12:48 pm
Jehovah's Witnesses are not known for sexual abuse of minors... These practices, which could happen in isolated cases, are neither allowed nor accepted in our organization. These practices do not characterize us as a community; we are not known for that.
Well... there is your claim, and then there are the facts as published in post #74.
The key point is not that JW's are more likely to abuse children than other church members, but that they may be more likely to cover it up since they require (or required) TWO witnesses to come forward. Since most sexual abuse of children occurs in private, there are never any witnesses, except the victim and the abuser. So the JW's don't report unless their criminal member confesses. This directly violates the statutory obligation to report abuse when the victim alone reports it.
Various individuals, courts and the media around the world have raised concerns about the manner in which cases of child sexual abuse are handled when they occur in congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses.
....
In 2019, elders in New Zealand were told to destroy documents, causing survivors of child sex abuse to fear that cases will be covered up. The organization maintained that documents relevant to cases of abuse would not be destroyed.
The UK Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse was particularly critical of Jehovah's Witnesses' policy that there must be two witnesses to cases of abuse before elders would consider the allegation. IICSA maintained the policy overlooks the fact that "child sexual abuse is most often perpetrated in the absence of witnesses."
Diogenes wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 12:30 pm
The point is that in spite of what is preached, certain practitioners in many if not all faiths, violate their own beliefs and are very reluctant to report child sexual abuse when the perpetrator is one of their own.
Yes that is sad. I have no problem with those that point out that sadly there is no segment of society that can claim to be 100% free of this problem. That is vastly different than claiming Jehovahs Witnesses (in ENGLISH when we pluralize it becomes a generality ie. The religion of Jehovah's Witnesses as a whole) do not believe molestation is a bad act.
- Jews do not eat pork [the tenets of this faith prohibit this practice]
- Muslims do not believe Jesus is the son of God [the tenets do not allow for this belief]
- Men (plural) do not believe rape is bad [as an identifiable group this is the general belief]
Can you see that one of the above may be objectionable to an individual that identifies with said group?
JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 11:14 amMolestation is a bad act...
It's a shame the JWs [The religion of Jehovah's Witnesses ] don't agree with your conclusion...
So thank you very much for your contribution but it is clear that THE POINT was not that certain individual Jehovah's Witnesses fail to hold to the tenets and policies of their faith but that the tenets of the Jehovah's Witness faith hold that molestation is not bad, and that is an untrue statement.
Diogenes wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 1:59 pm
... the JW's don't report unless their criminal member confesses. This directly violates the statutory obligation to report abuse when the victim alone reports it.
Are you claiming that it is official Jehovahs Witness policy that their members NOT report allegations or suspicions of child sexual abuse to the proper authorities unless the abuse is personally witnessed by two individuals or a confession obtained ?
Diogenes wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 1:59 pm
... the JW's don't report unless their criminal member confesses. This directly violates the statutory obligation to report abuse when the victim alone reports it.
Are you claiming that it is official Jehovahs Witness policy that their members NOT report allegations or suspicions of child sexual abuse to the proper authorities unless the abuse is personally witnessed by two individuals or a confession obtained ?
Seems to be the case.
"Candace Conti, now 33, was raised as a Jehovah’s Witness in Fremont, California. When she was 9, the elders in her congregation paired her with a man named Jonathan Kendrick for Saturday-morning field service. Instead of going door-to-door to preach the word of God, Kendrick would take Conti to his house and molest her, she says. She estimates this went on for about two years.
Years later, after Conti had left the Witnesses, she discovered Kendrick’s name on the federal sex-offender registry. When she went back to the elders in her former congregation to tell them about the abuse, she was rebuffed by something called the two-witness rule.
Rooted in Deuteronomy 19:15—“No single witness may convict another for any error or any sin that he may commit”—the two-witness rule states that, barring a confession, no member of the organization can be officially accused of committing a sin without two credible eyewitnesses who are willing to corroborate the accusation. Critics say this rule has helped turn Witness communities into havens for child molesters, who rarely commit crimes in the presence of bystanders.
The elders told Conti that without a second witness to the molestation, there was nothing they could do. (When reached for comment, Watchtower’s Office of Public Information said, “Our policies on child protection comply with the law, including any requirements for elders to report allegations of child abuse to authorities.” Watchtower declined to comment on specific cases out of respect for the privacy of all involved.)
Conti asked the elders to consider a plan she had devised for tracking child molesters within the organization. When they refused, she sued Watchtower, her former congregation, and Kendrick. During depositions, the elders admitted that they’d long known Kendrick had a history of child molestation—they knew before they paired him with Conti for door-to-door ministry, and before they rejected her story about the abuse. In 2012, a jury awarded Conti $28 million, believed to be the largest jury verdict ever for a single victim in a child-abuse case against a religious organization. (On appeal, judges reduced the damages to less than $3 million. Kendrick has always denied Conti’s allegations.)
Others had come forward with accusations against Watchtower before, but Conti refused to take a settlement, and the trial, with its blockbuster monetary award, became a major news story. In the years since, Watchtower has faced dozens of similar lawsuits from victims who say the organization’s policies enabled and protected their abusers. In addition to the 1997 “special blue envelope” letter, these suits have cited a 1989 letter in which Watchtower discouraged elders from reporting wrongdoing to civil authorities. “There is ‘a time to keep quiet,’ when ‘your words should prove to be few’ (Ecclesiastes 3:7; 5:2),” it read. “Improper use of the tongue by an elder can result in serious legal problems for the individual, the congregation, and even the Society.” source
Diogenes wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 1:59 pm
... the JW's don't report unless their criminal member confesses. This directly violates the statutory obligation to report abuse when the victim alone reports it.
Are you claiming that it is official Jehovahs Witness policy that their members NOT report allegations or suspicions of child sexual abuse to the proper authorities unless the abuse is personally witnessed by two individuals or a confession obtained ?
Seems to be the case. [...]
Seems? Why do you say "seems"? Do you not know what the Jehovah's Witness child protection policy is? Is it not publically available?
