Communication with the dead

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Rose2020
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Communication with the dead

Post #1

Post by Rose2020 »

Why would anyone wish to do that?

Is it through grief with attendant emotions? In which case it is understandable but irrational.

Or is it idle curiosity without reason? Which explains the showmanship of mediums, an entertainment. Mainly a con in my view. Think of people such as James Randi who debunked many an unfortunate con artist.

To my mind it is unhealthy and dangerous to delve in matters that promise to be detrimental. I see no good coming from it.

The Bible warns us to have no connection with mediums and such, I believe the Bible is giving excellent advice. Leave well alone that which is a natural necessary process. We live, we must die. Acceptance is the only real peace. Even if you could communicate with those gone, what good could it do?

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Difflugia
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Re: Communication with the dead

Post #11

Post by Difflugia »

Rose2020 wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 7:53 amMaybe, but I wouldn't risk it. It is collective power of minds wishing together to contact spirits. At best a waste of time, at worst so disturbing that mental problems have have resulted. It ranges from pure cons to real damage.
If you replace the word "sprits" with "gods" then you've just described every religion ever, including Christianity.
My pronouns are he, him, and his.

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Re: Communication with the dead

Post #12

Post by Rose2020 »

You could say that. If you are very cynical I suppose.

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Re: Communication with the dead

Post #13

Post by Miles »

Rose2020 wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 2:55 am [Replying to Miles in post #5]

Curiosity is not always a good thing.
Kind of depends on what they do with it, doesn't it.

And I'm still waiting for you to address the points in my post (#2) , or are they just too difficult?

After all, this IS a DEBATE forum and if you can't or don't want to debate then I suggest you post elsewhere.

.
Last edited by Miles on Thu Jun 02, 2022 5:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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William
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Re: Communication with the dead

Post #14

Post by William »

[Replying to Rose2020 in post #10]
William: I think that many religious folk are susceptible to rumors of the supernatural and will believe things they hear, without doing any diligent study.
Rose: Maybe
Most likely.
Rose: The Bible gives the best guidance as on all matters, leave well alone.
The Bible clearly provides evidence that folk are susceptible to rumors of the supernatural and will believe things they hear, without doing any diligent study

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Re: Communication with the dead

Post #15

Post by William »

Rose2020 wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 4:23 am Communication with the dead.
Why would anyone wish to do that?
There would be a number of reasons. For me it was motivated by the knowledge that I was getting shallow and often dubious communication with the living, even in relation to opinions about the dead.
I decided that I would give 'the dead' an opportunity to show they had more to offer.
Is it through grief with attendant emotions? In which case it is understandable but irrational.
The use of Talking Boards gained popularity in the US, shortly after the Civil War because of the great social grief experienced at fathers and sons/husbands and siblings lost in the fighting...people wanted to know that their loved-ones were alright and talking boards seemed to provide some closure and healing in that regard.
The name Ouija is a combination of the French “oui” and German “ja,” both meaning “yes.” It was patented in 1892 but primitive models date back to ancient times. Talking boards, also known as spirit boards, gained popularity in the United States during the late 1860s as mournful users attempted to communicate with the Civil War dead.{SOURCE}
Or is it idle curiosity without reason?
Curiosity [no matter how idle] always involves reason.
A warning about Ouija
University of Akron professor Oscar E. Olin, an ordained Universalist minister and instructor of philosophy and social sciences, was a major skeptic of Ouija.

Voices from beyond the grave? What complete balderdash.

He feared that the boards could cause psychological harm among those who developed too close an attachment.

“Many people, falling victims to its lure, have been mentally unbalanced,” he said. “Just as one may go insane over too close application to any one subject, so the Ouija board has its danger for the credulous, the superstitious, the hysterically inclined.”

So imagine Olin’s surprise when he tried Ouija and the planchette moved.

He was toying with the board when, to his curiosity, the indicator seemed to spell out a word. He was alone at the time, so he couldn’t blame anyone else.

The professor developed a theory: Perhaps his fingers had acted on unconscious impulses from the brain. Ignoring his own advice on developing too close an attachment, he began to conduct “exhaustive experiments” with Ouija boards.

“Although I certainly did not practice conscious fraud on myself, I found that I was able to get frequently startling sentences from the board as long as I could see what was being spelled,” he explained.

To test his hypothesis, he constructed his own talking board that included several common words as well as letter groupings that made it easier to form sentences. But he also added an adjustable screen that could block his view of the board.

Ouija seemed positively verbose without the obstruction.

“The moment I adjusted the screen in place, however, that moment the messages were effectually cut off,” Olin said.

He invited several self-proclaimed mediums to test the apparatus, but no one was able to produce any messages when the screen was drawn and their vision was blocked, he said.

“This convinces me that practically all Ouija board messages are the result of causes far closer to this world than the realm of spirits,” he said.
Which explains the showmanship of mediums, an entertainment. Mainly a con in my view. Think of people such as James Randi who debunked many an unfortunate con artist.
Perhaps we might be better off if there were folk like James Randi in ancient times who could have debunked famous biblical characters promoting their particular cons.
To my mind it is unhealthy and dangerous to delve in matters that promise to be detrimental. I see no good coming from it.
The promise of the detrimental came much later than when talking boards first gained popularity. There use was for more respectable pursuits than later on when a simple board was developed and branded "Ouija" and one can trace the source of the demonizing to modern day Christianity, which had already misrepresented the image of Lucifer sufficiently, and this helped to promote the detrimental within societies influence by Christianity.
The Bible warns us to have no connection with mediums and such, I believe the Bible is giving excellent advice.
You believe that the advice to kill such folk is "excellent advice"?
Leave well alone that which is a natural necessary process.
If we took that advice, we would be far worse off than we are today, because we would not question the things which Christianity has told us are true, and those days of taking the word of con-artists armed with bibles is on the decrease as we place aside the superstitious ideas based in supernatural suppositions. It is human nature and ability which are natural and necessary, and folk like James Randi would not have been able to uncover the fraudulent practices of con-artist without that.
We live, we must die. Acceptance is the only real peace. Even if you could communicate with those gone, what good could it do?
What good does it supposedly do when Christians claim to communicate with Jesus?

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Re: Communication with the dead

Post #16

Post by Rose2020 »

[Replying to William in post #14]

Interesting, I learn a lot by reading what you say.
So, you could try an Ouija board yourself then and report back your findings. Since you have reason and logic. I hope those protect you.

I and other Christians communicate with Jesus Christ through prayer. We know He is alive, not dead, also that He hears us.

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Re: Communication with the dead

Post #17

Post by William »

Rose2020 wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 6:59 pm [Replying to William in post #14]

Interesting, I learn a lot by reading what you say.
We have data - it is a bonus if we learn something, especially if such learning is worth investing in.
So, you could try an Ouija board yourself then and report back your findings.
Yes. I have created so-called 'talking' or 'spirit' boards and used them extensively as a device of Science, and came to a similar conclusion as professor Oscar E. Olin, although in today's language what Oscar said of being convinced that practically all Ouija board messages are the result of causes far closer to this world than the realm of spirits, he is referring to what we understand as the 'subconscious' and my studies - which have been far more extensive than what I read his studies involved - have me reaching the conclusion that this realm of the human mind is far vaster than we consciously understand.
Since you have reason and logic. I hope those protect you.
Those are tools and any protection gained from them should be enough to sort the weeds from the good stuff.
I and other Christians communicate with Jesus Christ through prayer. We know He is alive, not dead, also that He hears us.
I can only suppose that the confirmation that he hears is in the prayers somehow being answered, rather than he coming right out and saying so.

I have a different way of praying or conversing with the greater mind that religious theists generally refer to as "God" and it is a two-way interaction in that it is more like actual conversation than simply asking and waiting for some answer to make itself known in some way - although with both methods in operation these tend to complement each other...which is to say, I don't place limits on how the answers might be procured, through objective or subjective means...

This is a picture of one such Talking Board I created and used successfully.
Image

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Re: Communication with the dead

Post #18

Post by Rose2020 »

[media][/media][Replying to William in post #17]

Hi
I must say I am impressed. I do understand things from a curiosity angle. To investigate is part of human nature. Yet you are brave, much braver than I. Perhaps you are right.

I think even if you are, every human mind is capable of the greatest evil and I would not want to unleash that. I still think best leave alone what is known to cause a lot of trouble. This kind of experiment will yield interesting results if several people take part. Perhaps that is when things really happen! I recommend you never try that though.

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Re: Communication with the dead

Post #19

Post by William »

[Replying to Rose2020 in post #18]
I think even if you are, every human mind is capable of the greatest evil and I would not want to unleash that. I still think best leave alone what is known to cause a lot of trouble.
This is the part of your statement which pinpoints why so many folk develop superstitious-based beliefs.
Even beliefs about 'the human mind' such as you have expressed above, come into play in all things we do. Ones intent is paramount - and by that I am not referring to what one might project outward, but to any hidden intent one conceals behind the outward projection.

If "the human mind" is capable of "the greatest evil" it must also be capable of "the greatest good" but if one is distrustful of their own mind, then that does not change anything simple through the act of avoidance.

Eventually - when said mind is no longer housed within the shell of the human instrument - its true colors will be revealed and what it creates for itself as a consequence won't be influenced by any concealment techniques used while it was within the shell of the human experience.

I think this is why religions such as Christianity have become so popular, as they promise the individual that the work necessary to ensure a pleasant result re the next phase has been done by another - by a "God/Demigod" no less...

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Re: Communication with the dead

Post #20

Post by Rose2020 »

[Replying to William in post #19]

I respect your view but disagree.
God is real and he made us to have free will. Unfortunately that means we can perform evil or good as we please. To put ourselves in God's hands in repentance is our only chance. Otherwise the Devil has a free hand with our souls.

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