Easter Traditions?

[Tcg]

Are there any Easter Traditions that are related specifically to Jesus' resurrection? The Easter eggs hunts, bunnies and pastel-colored candies seem to be a celebration of spring. Certainly, sermons will be preached on Jesus' resurrection, but are there any Easter Traditions that Christians practice with their families that are focused on Jesus?


Tcg

[TRANSPONDER]

You said that John identified it as such. Where?

Where did I say "John Identified it"?

JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:15 pm
TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:04 pm
The point is a contradiction between John and the Synoptics on whether the last Supper was the Passover Seder feast or not.
Both John and the Synoptics have Jesus' evening meal (the last supper) on the first day of the festival of unfermented bread. That evidently refered in Jesus day to Nisan 14, the day of the sedar meal .

Both John and the Synoptics have Jesus' evening meal (the last supper) on the first day of the festival of unfermented bread. That evidently refered in Jesus day to Nisan 14, the day of the sedar meal .

JehovahsWitness wrote:Above are my conclusions based on the available evidence, I never said John identied the meal as the Sedar on the 14th, I said that on that occassion the first day of the festival of unfermented bread... evidently refered to the day of the sedar meal"

It is a question [at John 18:28] of eating the Seder (Passover meal) ...

How do you know this?

Already explained above. Your efforts at evasion and 'Oh I did not exactly say that' will not impress those who can clearly understand the point and are sure that you can, too.

[Athetotheist]

But the passages I referenced in John make it clear that the Passover hadn't been eaten yet when Jesus was tried, ...

Which Passover was John refering to at 18:28? the Passover festival (15th) or the Passover meal (14th)?

John 18:28----

"Then they led Jesus from Caiaphas to the Praetorium, and it was early morning. But they themselves did not go into the Praetorium, lest they should be defiled, but that they might eat the Passover."

That would have been the meal.

[JehovahsWitness]

WHICH DAY OF THE WEEK DID JESUS SEND HIS APOSTLES OUT TO PREPARE THE PASSOVER SEDAF MEAL?

The synoptic version makes it clear that the disciples made preparations for the Passover feast on the Wednesday ...

Unlike some western religious festivals that are always programed to start on the same DAY of the week, the Passover meal (sedar) did not always start on a Wednesday or any other particular day. It was biblically determined by the luna cycle and could fall on any day of the week.

None of the Gospel accounts say which day of the week the festivities fell when Jesus died but is seems reasonable to conclude the disciples made preparations during the daylight hours of 13th (which would have been a Thursday)


COULD THEY HAVE POSSIBLY MADE PREPARATIONS ON THE WEDNESDAY?

Not if those preparations involved slaughtering the Sedar lamb since it had to be killed and eaten before the following morning. If Jesus died on the Friday, the lamb had to be slaughtered that same evening.


RELATED POSTS

How was the Passover day calculated in Jesus day?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 96#p911296

[TRANSPONDER]

But the passages I referenced in John make it clear that the Passover hadn't been eaten yet when Jesus was tried, ...

Which Passover was John refering to at 18:28? the Passover festival (15th) or the Passover meal (14th)?

John 18:28----

"Then they led Jesus from Caiaphas to the Praetorium, and it was early morning. But they themselves did not go into the Praetorium, lest they should be defiled, but that they might eat the Passover."

That would have been the meal.

Has to be. There is only one Passover to eat and that is the Seder. So (according to John) it hadn't been eaten when the trial was held. But the synoptics make it clear that it is the Passover meal already eaten at the last supper.

JW's evasions of 'where does the Bible say Wednesday?' does his case no good and frankly disrepects us as it implies that we are too stupid to see through it. Why do they do it? Because they so often do. I have a theory.

Religious apologetics are based on religion which is faithbased. This means that they have invested personal street cred into it. It is something personal for them. I hypothesise that buying into faith requires them to believe that God hath revealed himself to them and Truth is downloaded by Him into their heads. You can see this with Interpretation and knowing what the Bible means even when it says something else. We've all seen it "You cannot really understand the Bible unless you have faith" or something like. And we know that when a believer changed their mind, God changed his mind, too.

So the upshot is that what matters is maintaining this illusion that God is telling them Truth in their heads and that means that they cannot be wrong about something religion -related. This means that they can make their religion look as daft as they must, so long as they never, ever, admit "I got it wrong" because that would make the god in their head just their own opinions and beliefs.

[JehovahsWitness]

The synoptic version makes it clear that the disciples made preparations for the Passover feast on the ... first day of the festival of unleavened bread when the Passover lambs were killed ....

MARK 14:12 NIV

On the first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread, when it was customary to sacrifice the Passover lamb, Jesus’ disciples asked him, “Where do you want us to go and make preparations for you to eat the Passover?”

TO WHAT ARE THE BIBLE WRITERS REFERING WHEN THEY SPEAK ABOUT "THE FIRST DAY OF THE FESTIVAL" ?



As has been pointed out the expression "The first day of the festival" is somewhat ambiguous.


"The first day of the festival" can refer to either the first day of the festive season (ie 14th) or the first day of the official TEMPLE based festival of unleaven bread (15th). Point # 3 under the entry for PASSOVER in McClintock and Strong Biblical Cyclopedia , reads as follows...



source: https://www.biblicalcyclopedia.com/P/passover.html

The companion text to Roy A. Stewart's (Honorary Lecturer in Aramaic in the University of Glasgow) also theorized as to the rather fluid nature of the designation ...



In both cases lambs were killed /sacrifice and meals were eaten.

Given their close proximity the two holy days were eventually merged into one festival.



THE FIRST DAY

When was the festival of unleaven bread/cakes?
viewtopic.php?p=1082771#p1082771

Were the Passover (sedar) meal and 7 day temple festival REALLY on two different dates?
viewtopic.php?p=1082314#p1082314

WHEN was "the first day of the Passover festival"?
viewtopic.php?p=1082286#p1082286

When was the Sedar Passover meal moved from Nisan 14 to the 15th?
viewtopic.php?p=1083057#p1083057

Was the Passover (sedar) meal the ONLY religious (ceremonial) meal eaten during the Passover season?
viewtopic.php?p=1082290#p1082290

To learn more please go to other posts related to ...

THE PASSOVER, THE MOSAIC LAW COVENANT and ... SABBATH KEEPING

[JehovahsWitness]

But the passages I referenced in John make it clear that the Passover hadn't been eaten yet when Jesus was tried, ...

Which Passover was John refering to at 18:28? the Passover festival (15th) or the Passover meal (14th)?

John 18:28----

"Then they led Jesus from Caiaphas to the Praetorium, and it was early morning. But they themselves did not go into the Praetorium, lest they should be defiled, but that they might eat the Passover."

That would have been the meal.

Which meal? Are you under the impression there were no meals during the 7 day festival which started on the 15th?

[JehovahsWitness]

WAS THE SEDAR MEAL OF NISAN 14 THE ONLY RELIGIOUS MEAL EATEN DURING THE PASSOVER SEASON?

JOHN 18:28----

"Then they led Jesus from Caiaphas to the Praetorium, and it was early morning. But they themselves did not go into the Praetorium, lest they should be defiled, but that they might eat the Passover."

EXODUS 23:15

You will observe the Festival of Unleavened Bread. You will eat unleavened bread for seven days, just as I have commanded you

2 CHRONICLES 30: 21, 22

“So the sons of Israel that were found in Jerusalem held the festival of the unfermented cakes seven days with great rejoicing ... And they proceeded to eat the appointed feast for seven days, sacrificing communion sacrifices and making confession to Jehovah the God of their forefathers.”

Passover MEAL(s) NISAN 14 and NISAN 15: According to Jewish Biblical scholar Alfred Edersheim:

"A voluntary peace offering was made on Passover and another, a compulsory one, on the next day, Nisan 15, the first day of the Festival of Unfermented Cakes. It was this second offering that the Jews were afraid they might not be able to eat if they contracted defilement in the judgment hall of Pilate" ” The Temple, 1874, pp. 186, 187 Thus if Jesus died after eating the "passover meal" but before the first day of the festival (Nisan 15) it would explain John's terminology and harmonize with the other accounts.

The entre under PASSOVER in The Jewish Encylopedia points out {quote}.. the eating of unleavened bread was commanded (Ex. xii. 15, 18; xiii. 6, 7; xxiii. 15; xxxiv. 18; Lev. xxiii. 6; Num. xxviii. 17).

JW




THE FIRST DAY

Were the Passover (sedar) meal and 7 day temple festival REALLY on two different dates?
viewtopic.php?p=1082314#p1082314

WHEN was "the first day of the Passover festival"?
viewtopic.php?p=1082286#p1082286

When was the Sedar Passover meal moved from Nisan 14 to the 15th?
viewtopic.php?p=1083057#p1083057

Was the Passover (sedar) meal the ONLY religious meal eaten during the Passover season?
viewtopic.php?p=1082290#p1082290

To learn more please go to other posts related to ...

THE PASSOVER, THE MOSAIC LAW COVENANT and ... SABBATH KEEPING

[TRANSPONDER]

The synoptic version makes it clear that the disciples made preparations for the Passover feast on the ... first day of the festival of unleavened bread when the Passover lambs were killed ....

As has been pointed out the expression "The first day of the festival" is somewhat ambiguous.

The entry under PASSOVER in The Jewish Encylopedia points out {quote} "This pastoral Pesaḥ was originally distinct from the Maẓẓot festival, but it merged all the more readily with it because both occurred in the spring"

Thus "The first day of the festival" can refer to either the first day of the festive season (ie 14th) or the first day of the official festival of unleaven bread (15th).

In both cases lambs were killed /sacrifice.

To learn more please go to other posts related to ...

THE PASSOVER, THE MOSAIC LAW COVENANT and ... SABBATH KEEPING

Doesn't matter. Evasion. Misdirection. The Friday crucifixion sets the chonology. The trial puts the last supper and arrest on the Thursday. With the synoptics placing the slaughter of lambs before that probably on the Wednedsay (1) But John's references makes it clear that supper hasn't been eaten yet (1) Unless you can somehow address this problem other than trying all sorts of irrelevant pettifogger tricks to try to evade the problem, this is going to be a valid contradiction in the gospels. I'm not letting you wriggle out of this. I've eaten smarter JWs than you for breakfast.

(1)possibly....yes, Mark 14 12 says it was the first day (when the lambs were killed) and Matthew says it was the first day when the disciples made arrangements for the Passover to be eaten. How about you look at what your Bible says rather than claiming that it says(or doesn't say) whatever you like, and disrespecting me by supposing that I won't care what it says, either?

And a P.s Passover pesach is the festival than includes the Seder meal, Passover Mazzot is the festival at which flatbread (Mazzot) is eaten. There is no chonological discrepancy here and you are again being scurriously evasive in suggesting that there is.

[JehovahsWitness]

DOES THE WRITER OF JOHN (18:28 ) INDICATE JESUS WAS TRIED AND EXECUTED BEFORE THE PASSOVER SEDAR MEAL OF NISAN 14?


No. John chapter 13 verse 2 presents Jesus as eating an "evening meal" which it seems reasonable to conclude was indeed on the occassion of the Sedar Passover because in the parallel account in Mark 14 the same conversation identifying Jesus betrayer is recorded (Mark 14:17-21). It was according to Mark, during that SAME meal in which he had earlier identified the betrayer, that Jesus commanded his disciples to commemorate his own death with bread and wine. Mark, helpfully, has clearer time markers, placing the meal where that conversation took place in the "evening" of the first day of the Unleavened Bread.




CONCLUSION : The link between Mark's and John's accounts help us identify John's evening meal as being the Sedar Meal before his trial and execution and there is no good reason to believe this wasn't on the evening of the 14th as per the bible edict. That being the case then the Priests were heistant to defile themselves for the TEMPLE ceremonies (which involved eating unleaven bread) which was scheduled for the following day (Saturday 15th)







THE FIRST DAY

Were the Passover (sedar) meal and 7 day temple festival REALLY on two different dates?
viewtopic.php?p=1082314#p1082314

WHEN was "the first day of the Passover festival"?
viewtopic.php?p=1082286#p1082286

Was John's "evening meal" the (sedar) PASSOVER meal of the Synoptic?
viewtopic.php?p=1082865#p1082865

Does JOHN 18:28 indicate at Jesus trial he had not yet eaten the sedar meal ?
viewtopic.php?p=1082304#p1082304

Was the Passover (sedar) meal the ONLY religious meal eaten during the Passover season?
viewtopic.php?p=1082290#p1082290

To learn more please go to other posts related to ...

THE PASSOVER, THE MOSAIC LAW COVENANT and ... SABBATH KEEPING

[TRANSPONDER]

DOES THE WRITER OF JOHN (18:28 ) INDICATE JESUS WAS TRIED AND EXECUTED BEFORE THE PASSOVER MEAL OF NISAN 14?


No. John chapter 13 verse 2 presents Jesus as eating an evening meal which it seems reasonable to conclude was indeed the Sedar Passover because in the parallel account in Mark 14 the same conversation identifying Jesus betrayer is recorded (Mark 14:17-21). Mark, helpfully, has clearer time markers, placing the meal where that conversation took place in the "evening" of the first day of the Unleavened Bread.


CONCLUSION : John did indeed depict Jesus as eating the Sedar Meal before his trial and execution and there is no good reason to believe this wasn't on the evening of the 14th as per the bible edict. That being the case then the Priests were heistant to defile themselves for the TEMPLE ceremonies (which involved eating unleaven bread) which was scheduled for the following day (Saturday 15th)

No. It has been set out clearly that John says the Passover hadn't been eaten yet at the time of the trial. Thus John's passover meal (whenever it was) could not have been his last supper. Unless you can find some explanation. Your claim that the Passover feast and the Matzoh -feast were 'different' and thus perhaps maybe on different dates crashed and burned and you are just ignoring all this and hoping we will. We won't and you are like a stage magician trying to play to an audience who know how the trick is done. I'd say you have had it, as if you had any way to resolve this contradiction, we'd have seen it.

But thanks at least at showing us how faithbased denial of facts or strong evidence works. The apologists cherry - picks anything that fits (or can be fiddled to look like it) and ignores anything that contradicts.

This is a rather minor but significant contradiction. It at least strongly suggests that these people could not be contemporaries who knew what was going on. They were later writers, remote from the events who just guessed at what was happening and thus conflicted with others who guessed and wrote something different. It at least sets a scene for doubting bigger and more significant discrepancies.