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Replying to Purple Knight in post #334]
Correct, they are invented. Numbers too are invented but math is one of the most rock-solid, consistent, logical things we have.
I think the more appropriate word to use is 'discovered' rather than 'invented'
With mathematics, the invention is in the symbols created to represent constructs which were invisible to anything but mind(s).
Same goes for all things of the mind. Symbols have been invented to represent them in the physical world where they exist as invisible entities within mind(s) able to connect with and influence how the physical world outside unfolds re Human interactions with it.
Language. Morals.
Everything to do with conceptualization and subsequent dot-connecting...
What I like about it, is that it gives one more scope in which to work within...
I think of morality as a sort of math I just don't understand.
Could it be that morality is a sort of math hard to understand.
Why is it hard to understand? You obviously understand it enough to argue for its importance...
If you ask a libertarian, they will tell you that their morals - the Non-Aggression Principle, property rights, that sort - is discovered and not invented. They will insist this with such surety that although this is confusing, behaving as if and defending the fact that morals are discovered, not invented, is one of these fundamental principles. So by telling the truth now I am behaving an an immoral fashion. Which I would well expect of a psychopath such as myself.
There is both invention and discovery. It is therefore important to get it right. The tendency to invent explanations and superimpose these upon what is discovered, muddies those waters.
This happens from both Theist and Atheist camps. We simply do not know enough about where we get our information of the mind from, to be placing potentially misleading information on this vastly invisible reality.
Search "psychopath"
a person suffering from chronic mental disorder with abnormal or violent social behaviour. an unstable and aggressive person.
I do not see the connect between an unstable and aggressive personality and someone who is uncovering truth and consequently behaving immorally.
Are you sure you have the correct diagnosis?
I think of the fact that morals are invented and not discovered as a wrong truth, just like the fact that we could make a better world with eugenics and the fact that there wouldn't be any effective racism or any oppression if races were kept separate, as long as land shares were fair. These things are technically correct but also disgusting and indefensible.
They are that way because they rely on being able to bypass natural morality by superimposing belief onto the natural state of life humans project.
One can and did understand eugenics in another epoch, just as surely as cannibalism and incest had their ordinary place of practice. We need be careful not to conflate our current epoch with those forerunners in such a way that we prevent ourselves from truly understanding the process the human race is going through, re the epochs.
To judge too harshly won't get us out of the woods. We might want to also project our thoughts into the undetermined future and ask ourselves how future humans will judge our handling of our epoch...with any good foresight, we should be able to ascertain that we were on the right path, still had work to do, and did the work, therefore rendering gratitude rather than judgement from said decedents.
We appear to have descended from ancestors who prefer to judge ancestors rather than feel gratitude. We have to work on our understanding of morality in order to break that habit...
William: "Where" is this seemingly unconnected cultural exhibition sourced, if not from the mind of the PU itself?
People. I watch them, study them, listen to them, and I ask them questions.
I think of this as practically the same thing. Observing people I see the Mind of the Cosmos struggling to be heard above the fray...it appears to want to be heard through that Human medium, but that medium resists hearing, except what it wants to hear for its own individual agenda, rather than recognizing the overall.
This type of resistance can be conscious or subconscious in its effort to remain unconscious of the invisible reality of the overall mindfulness. Focused attention on personal agenda is a rather successful way in which to drown out such musing...