Weird and confusing things non-theists claim about atheism

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Weird and confusing things non-theists claim about atheism

Post #1

Post by William »

One of the first lessons that recruits into the Atheist Infiltration Squad go through in their combat training is to overcome Fear of Woo.

"Everything is made of Nothing! Indeterminacy means that nothing is sure! Beware the Holographic universe."..... "Get up and stop whimpering...I want your DOE." .... "Remember, you maggotts...whatever is happening at Quantum level, the world of Physics still works as reliably as it did for Newton. Now get to the mess room, it's chow time!"~ TRANSPONDER {SOURCE}
I wasn't aware that atheism was so organized as to have a creed in which atheist's can follow. :)

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Re: Weird and confusing things non-theists claim about atheism

Post #11

Post by William »

The Creationists (Young or Old earth) postulate an uncreated eternal Cosmic Mind as the explanation. This Mind of course itself having no origin and was not created. On pure logic that would be harder to explain than the most basic of matter (energy holding position) existing without needing to be created.
viewtopic.php?p=1082775#p1082775

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Re: Weird and confusing things non-theists claim about atheism

Post #12

Post by William »

A video made by an atheist about some things non-theists state.



From the link;

It's unfortunately too common to see atheists online implying that atheism is always rational, that atheists are logical people, or that religious people are always irrational. I'm an atheist, and I see implications like that as absurd and harmful, so I'm here to counter them. Religious people can be reasonable, just reading the Bible doesn't justify atheism, and you can be reasoned out of beliefs you weren't reasoned into.

Like I said in my last video like this (4 Things Atheists Should Never Say), I see a lot of these sayings and ideas as vestiges of "New atheism" from the hayday of The God Delusion, God Is Not Great, and the Four Horsemen: Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, and Daniel Dennett. Regardless of their source, atheists shouldn't say these things. Like I've said previously in videos like Why Theists Can't Convert Atheists, we should strive for positive, constructive discourse with theists.

My last video like this:

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Re: Weird and confusing things non-theists claim about atheism

Post #13

Post by William »

If I died right now and found out that there really is a GOD, I'd maintain that my lack of belief in GOD was reasonable during my life.
To the best of my knowledge there isn't sufficient evidence to conclude that GOD exists.
There very well could be information that proves GODs existence out there, but since I don't have it and can't find it by my best efforts, it's reasonable for me not to hold a belief in GOD right now.

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Re: Weird and confusing things non-theists claim about atheism

Post #14

Post by William »

[Replying to William in post #13]

Questions I would ask this atheist, re his position and why I would ask.


Listening to your commentary in your video's to do with things atheists shouldn't say, I think your position is closer to Natural Neutral than to Atheism.

The problem [as I see it] with atheism as it has evolved is that it is primarily described as a position of lacking belief in GODs.

Atheists describe themselves in relation to the generic position - "Lacking belief in GODs - which is why you think of yourself as an Atheist - because you know that you lack belief in GODs...

However, the subject of belief in GODs is not fundamental to the question of existence...therefore any belief or lack of belief in GODs is not fundamental to the question of existence...but rather, a subset of the question "Do we exist within a creation?"

In other words, the argument for or against the existence of GODs relies upon the fundamental requirement of first establishing whether we exist within a creation...and since this has yet to be established one way or the other, the subject of GODs has to remain of secondary consideration - something to ask after the fundamental question "Do we exist within a creation", is answered.


With that in mind, I quote you;
"If I died right now and found out that there really is a GOD, I'd maintain that my lack of belief in GOD was reasonable during my life.
To the best of my knowledge there isn't sufficient evidence to conclude that GOD exists.
There very well could be information that proves GODs existence out there, but since I don't have it and can't find it by my best efforts, it's reasonable for me not to hold a belief in GOD right now."
As an atheist you are free to think that way in accordance with the position "lacking belief in GODs"

However, on the question "Do we exist in a creation"

To say;
"If I died right now and found out that I really had been existing within a creation, I'd maintain that my lack of belief in that, was reasonable during my life. To the best of my knowledge there isn't sufficient evidence to conclude that we exist within a creation. There very well could be information that proves we exist within a creation, but since I don't have it and can't find it by my best efforts, it's reasonable for me not to hold such a belief right now."

becomes unreasonable in relation to being an atheist as it is lacking belief that one exists within a creation rather than lacking belief in GODs

I understand that one might consider the two questions variations one each other...however, it still depends of the fundamentals, in which case, the revelation upon death that ones prior existence was within a creation only begs the question re the existence of GODs and any entity approaching you claiming to be the creator of said creation, cannot simply be accepted on his/her/its word.

More information would be required before one could agree with the entity...


Do you see and can you share in the logic in my rational to the point where you can abandon your "full time activist atheist" position for something more suitable re The Question "Do we exist within a creation?"

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Re: Weird and confusing things non-theists claim about atheism

Post #15

Post by William »

The logical and evidence -based position remains the same - the material/natural is known and anything else requires proof.
viewtopic.php?p=1083902#p1083902

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Re: Weird and confusing things non-theists claim about atheism

Post #16

Post by William »

Of course there's God's Gordian not. Whatever it is could simply come down and appear on chat shows. Christians (and Muslims) have argued that atheists would never believe and (black swan fallacy) the skeptics would be right to question what could be a crafty alien looking to exploit us. But in time and with evidence, atheists would come to credit that it really was God. Rather it is the religionists who would deny it - if it wasn't endorsing their own particular Dogma.
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Re: Weird and confusing things non-theists claim about atheism

Post #17

Post by William »

The question "Do we exist within a creation?" cannot be held as a premise.

Theism answers the question "Yes" and therefore can build upon that along the lines of;

1: We exist within a creation, therefore;
2: ...

Atheism answers the question "No" and therefore can build upon that along the lines of;

We do not exist within a creation, therefore;
2: ...
Theists who believe that creation involves the act of a deity may answer yes to the question. But atheists do not have to answer no. Their response to the question may be along the lines of "I am not convinced by the claim that we exist in a creation and until you provide compelling evidence for it I am not accepting it". The atheist does not have to follow up with any 'therefore' and build any sort of case for their position as you seem to imply. One can simply reject the claim and move on.

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Re: Weird and confusing things non-theists claim about atheism

Post #18

Post by William »

I have made it clear that the logical and evidential basis for atheism is solid, and (while the door for evidence is always open) we don't have it yet and cryptotheist claims (like 'minds affect nature' as i saw recently) are no kind of valid case.
viewtopic.php?p=1084365#p1084365

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Re: Weird and confusing things non-theists claim about atheism

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Re: Weird and confusing things non-theists claim about atheism

Post #20

Post by William »

There is no position as not a theist and also not an atheist. One may be confused or uncertain of the position they take, but if they aren't convinced that god/gods exist, they are an atheist. If they are they are a theist. It's binary, one or the other.
viewtopic.php?p=1088950#p1088950

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