The Atonement

[Revelations won]

To all true Christians there is nothing more important to our salvation than "The Atonement of Jesus Christ".

Having said that, is it not therefore extremely important to every individual to understand fully what and how the atonement works for our benefit?

What does the atonement do or does not do?

What is required on our part to receive the full benefits of the atonement?

What and when and by whom did the atonement begin?

Can anyone clearly show all scriptures pertaining to the atonement?

I look forward to hearing your "take" on this most important topic.

Kind regards,
RW

[Brightfame52]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #470]

Christs atonement gains for them He died for repentance and remission of sin. Jesus said to preach it Lk 24:47

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

If you dont know the importance of these blessings, I cant help you and you probably shouldnt be witnessing for Christ and His Atonement.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #470]

Christs atonement gains for them He died for repentance and remission of sin. Jesus said to preach it Lk 24:47

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

If you dont know the importance of these blessings, I cant help you and you probably shouldnt be witnessing for Christ and His Atonement.

Yes, that was the only path to salvation until Jesus died on the cross, because we were under the Old Testament Covenant until His sinless life and death.

But following Jesus' crucifixion, we fell under the New Testament Covenant and there is no requirement of being sinless to gain everlasting life under that covenant:

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Since we are no longer obligated to be sinless to gain everlasting life under the New Testament Covenant, then there is no need to atone for our sins to gain everlasting life under that covenant.

Sin no longer prevents humans from gaining everlasting life!

What part of this do you not understand.

[Brightfame52]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #472]

Christ gave that command to preach remission and repentance after His Death Lk 24:47

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Remission of sins is a New Covenant Blessing Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

I can see you dont have a clue about the Atoning Death of Christ !

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to Brightfame52 in post #473]

Following Jesus' crucifixion, we fell under the New Testament Covenant and there is no requirement of being sinless to gain everlasting life under that covenant:

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Sins were remitted or cancelled as a requirement for salvation, as confirmed in Luke 24:47 and Matthew 26:28:

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Thus sins no longer affect our salvation! So the gospel good news that should be preached to all the world is that sin does not affect our salvation. The one requirement to gain everlasting life is to believe in Jesus:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Since we are no longer obligated to be sinless to gain everlasting life under the New Testament Covenant, then there is no need to atone for our sins to gain everlasting life under that covenant.

Sin no longer prevents humans from gaining everlasting life!

Good post. You're starting to understand it!

[Brightfame52]

It accomplished propitiation !

One of the sure ways to detect teachers of error, is to ask them what they believe the Death of Christ accomplished . They will for the most part say that His Death provided a possibility for everyone in the world to be saved, they do not say it made Salvation sure or that it[His Death] in and of itself saved anyone. They will go to 1 Jn 2:2 to prove their point ! By it they say Jesus Christ died for everyone in the world, and propitiated God for everyone in the world without exception. Once a Person goes there, I know without question that they do not understand what propitiation is to God !

In 1 Jn 2:2 its the word Hilasmos and means:

an appeasing, propitiating
the means of appeasing, a propitiation

The english word appease means:

to bring to a state of peace, quiet, ease, calm, or contentment; pacify; soothe: to appease an angry king.

Basically propitiation means to appease God's Wrath, to make satisfaction, to be propitious or merciful which denotes acceptance and favor.

It [propitiation] is the first cousin to reconciliation !

The Lord Jesus Christ upon the Cross appeased or satisfied God's Justice that His Law demanded for everyone He died in the stead of. God's Holy law against their transgressions demanded Death, and Christ was the representative and was subrogated in their place. The Lord Jesus Christ met the Just demands of the law that was against them, and it was He instead of them that God's Justice and Righteousness put to Death. God's Justice was satisfied and His Law was Honored and Magnified, and everyone this was done for, God gives them Faith so they can know it and praise His Grace and mercy for it.

John writes that He is our Propitiation 1 Jn 2:2

2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

In the greek it is present tense, that is He is presently being our satisfaction for our sins, and not at that time just to the jewish believers John wrote to, but to believers all over the world, and for all time !

Folks, simply put, God cannot, without being unjust, punish anyone Christ died for, not for anything ! His Justice cannot do it.

So for those who use this scripture to teach that Christ died for everyone in the world without exception, that Propitiated God on their behalf, and know at the same time people shall die in their sins Jn 8:24

24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

We know all will not believe because Jn 10:26

26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Now according to Jn 8:24 they shall die in their sins !

So if they die in their sins, and yet Christ is their propitiation, then God is punishing them again for their sins Christ died for 1 Cor 15:3, which makes God unjust and Christ has been betrayed, because He suffered death already for the sins that they are again to be punished for eternally !6

[myth-one.com]

Now according to Jn 8:24 they shall die in their sins !

So if they die in their sins, and yet Christ is their propitiation, then God is punishing them again for their sins Christ died for 1 Cor 15:3, which makes God unjust and Christ has been betrayed, because He suffered death already for the sins that they are again to be punished for eternally !

So your conclusion is that God is unjust and Jesus was betrayed by God?

[Brightfame52]

All for whom Christ died, He gave Himself a ransom 1 Tim 2:6

Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Matt 20:28

Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

This ransom price being paid [To God] demands the release of the captives for which it was made in behalf of, in fact, it effects the release of all the captives it paid a ransom price for. Now if that does not occur, and anyone of those for whom Christ died as a ransom in behalf of, and any of them remain captive to the devil as per 2 Tim 2:26

And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

If this be the case, then Christ's Ransom Blood was not effective, and failed to produce the purposed results. Isa 61:1

The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; Also see Lk 4:18

Christ's Ransom Payment must deliver from captivity and death, or it was fruitless, without results or success !

[myth-one.com]

Christ's Ransom Payment must deliver from captivity and death, or it was fruitless, without results or success !

I'm having to guess somewhat.

Is the alleged ransom payment Jesus' death on the cross?

And did that event pay the wages for our sins?

[Brightfame52]

mythone

Is the alleged ransom payment Jesus' death on the cross?

Yes

And did that event pay the wages for our sins?

If we are one of Gods Elect, Yes, if not, then NO

[myth-one.com]

mythone

Is the alleged ransom payment Jesus' death on the cross?

Yes

And did that event pay the wages for our sins?

If we are one of Gods Elect, Yes, if not, then NO

Two "deaths" are defined in the Bible. The first death is appointed to every human:

And it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Following the judgment, those whose names are not written in the Book of Life are cast into the lake of fire and suffer their second death.

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The first appointed death is not the wages for our sins, as everyone undergoes that death.

The second death is the wages for our sins. It is administered to the "unbelieving" and it lasts forever.

Jesus died His first appointed death on the cross.

He was not cast into the lake of fire and pay the wages for anyone's sins by suffering the second death.

That is not the method by which we are saved.

We are not saved by His death, but by His sinless life.

We are saved by accepting the free gift of Jesus' inheritance which He earned by living a sinless life under the Old Testament Covenant.

He wills His inheritance of everlasting life to those who believeth in Him as their Savior under the New Testament Covenant.