Why did Jesus have to be male?

nobspeople · Post by **nobspeople** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:48 am

Along the same lines of the thread here
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=38174
Why did Jesus have to be male?
I assume he is though some may debate it if the above thread is any indication about what words mean and what terms were used then as they are now.

But why did God (whatever gender it is or isn't) decide to make a male version of himself/son (whichever you choose to believe)?
Why couldn't Jesus have been a female? Would the sacrifice he's said to have made been any more of less successful?
Was Jesus needed to be male in order to get respect and attention? If so, could this be why God is male?
What was the reason why Jesus was and had to be male?
Or was if simply random?

Difflugia · Post by **Difflugia** » Wed Jul 13, 2022 7:39 am

JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 2:38 amNot according to the bible narrative. God told them what would happen, that didn't cause their death any more than a doctor announcing that a patient's illness is terminal, causes their illness. Nobody pushed Adam and Eve to do what they did, they were not forced against their will to do something they did not wish to do.

Merely "announcing" a terminal illness?

Yahweh God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand, and also take of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever—” Therefore Yahweh God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.

Even in the best light, the doctor kicked the patients out of their own home to die of an illness that was treatable with medicine already in the fridge.

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Wed Jul 13, 2022 5:40 pm

brunumb wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 5:39 am ... it all happen as his response to their actions.

His response is irrelevant, if you scream in response to seeing a brutal murder, does your response prove you are responsible for murduring someone? Adam and Eve were responsible for their own actions, God merely spelt out for them the repurcussions of their own selfish acts.

JW

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JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Wed Jul 13, 2022 5:46 pm

Difflugia wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 7:39 am Merely "announcing" a terminal illness?

Amongst other repurcussions, yes.

Difflugia wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 7:39 am

Yahweh God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand, and also take of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever—” Therefore Yahweh God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.

One of the other consequences of their reckless actions was they lost their home. If you dont respct the deeds of tenancy, you get evicted; why should the landlord be blamed for that? Adam and Eve had no further right to live in paradise, that as their own fault, not God's.

brunumb · Post by **brunumb** » Wed Jul 13, 2022 7:20 pm

JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 5:40 pm
brunumb wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 5:39 am ... it all happen as his response to their actions.
His response is irrelevant, if you scream in response to seeing a brutal murder, does your response prove you are responsible for murduring someone? Adam and Eve were responsible for their own actions, God merely spelt out for them the repurcussions of their own selfish acts.

JW

More word games to avoid confronting the truth. The response from God IS the murder. Only he had the capacity to introduce pain, suffering and death into the world. He did that in response to being disobeyed. So many apologists use passive phrases like "death entered the world" to avoid facing up to that fact.
Gangster: "Disobey me and you will suffer and die".
Child disobeys and the gangster kills the child. Just before the child passes he adds "Oh, I should have mentioned that I'm going to do the same to everyone else. So what I do is really all your fault". Yeah, right.

JoeyKnothead · Post by **JoeyKnothead** » Wed Jul 13, 2022 8:44 pm

brunumb wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 7:20 pm More word games to avoid confronting the truth. The response from God IS the murder. Only he had the capacity to introduce pain, suffering and death into the world. He did that in response to being disobeyed. So many apologists use passive phrases like "death entered the world" to avoid facing up to that fact.
Gangster: "Disobey me and you will suffer and die".
Child disobeys and the gangster kills the child. Just before the child passes he adds "Oh, I should have mentioned that I'm going to do the same to everyone else. So what I do is really all your fault". Yeah, right.

That's a nice garden ya got there. It'd be a shame if something was to happen to it.

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Wed Jul 13, 2022 10:51 pm

brunumb wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 7:20 pm
The response from God IS the murder.

God didnt murder anyone. MURDER is unlawful killing, God didn't kill Adam and Eve they killed themselves. What else should we call it when somone deliberately does something they have been warned will kill them. Jehovah told them that if they ate from a particular tree they would die. They ate from the tree. They died. If you warned someone not to swallow a bottle of poison but they ignored and died, should you be tried for murder? I believe you are attempting to shoot the messenger.

brunumb wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 5:39 amAll for mere disobedience ...

Some acts of disobedience will prove lethal: if your flight instructor tells you never to jump off a plane without a paracchute and you disobey him you will die. God warned Adam and Eve not to do something that would lead to their death, they disobeyed him, their act of disobedience was indeed lethal.

Your flight instructor did not kill you, he warned you.

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JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Wed Jul 13, 2022 10:57 pm

brunumb wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 7:20 pm Only he [God] had the capacity to introduce pain, suffering and death into the world. He did that in response to being disobeyed.

Biblically that is untrue.

ROMANS 5:12 NIV

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned

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brunumb · Post by **brunumb** » Thu Jul 14, 2022 1:51 am

JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 10:51 pm
brunumb wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 7:20 pm
The response from God IS the murder.
God didnt murder anyone. MURDER is unlawful killing, God didn't kill Adam and Eve they killed themselves. What else should we call it when somone deliberately does something they have been warned will kill them. Jehovah told them that if they ate from a particular tree they would die. They ate from the tree. They died. If you warned someone not to swallow a bottle of poison but they ignored and died, should you be tried for murder? I believe you are attempting to shoot the messenger.

More word games. I used the term murder to put your example in proper context. If you go back and read the part you conveniently omitted and apply critical thinking skills you might see exactly what I was getting at.

Adam and Eve did not kill themselves. They were killed my God as retribution for disobeying his command, even though they were deceived by the most cunning creature in the garden who was also created by God. God should have come clean from the beginning and said "If you eat that fruit I will kill you (eventually) and inflict pain misery and suffering on you in the meantime and all of your descendants. Please don't bother asking for any mercy or forgiveness".

JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 10:51 pm
brunumb wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 5:39 amAll for mere disobedience ...
Some acts of disobedience will prove lethal: if your flight instructor tells you never to jump off a plane without a paracchute and you disobey him you will die. God warned Adam and Eve not to do something that would lead to their death, they disobeyed him, their act of disobedience was indeed lethal.

Your flight instructor did not kill you, he warned you.

But the flight instructor was not the one who killed you. He could even have intervened to prevent you from dying. Eating the forbidden fruit didn't kill Adam and Eve, God did. In this scenario, disobedience is not the literal cause of death, it is the punishment imposed. Without the intervention of God nothing would have changed. Only God had the power to change his original garden scenario that had no pain or death into one that did. He had to have initiated the change. Adam and Eve unwittingly gave him the excuse to change the world into one where humans had to endure pain, suffering and death.

[Edited to correct format]

brunumb · Post by **brunumb** » Thu Jul 14, 2022 1:55 am

JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 10:57 pm
brunumb wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 7:20 pm Only he [God] had the capacity to introduce pain, suffering and death into the world. He did that in response to being disobeyed.
Biblically that is untrue.

ROMANS 5:12 NIV

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned

Just as I said earlier. The apologist's use of the passive "sin entered the world" or "death entered" to disguise the facts. Those are meaningless phrases used to hide the fact that the only way suffering and death could occur is if God made it happen by changing the original world he created.

[Edited to correct format]

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