I remember a TV preacher once asking his broadcast audience, "If you were Satan....." I don't remember the rest of the question, but I seem to remember that he was talking about prophecy and arguing that Satan was up to some diabolical mischief ("If you were Satan, isn't that what you would do?").
A lot of detail in Christian scripture about what is to happen before Jesus returns is tied to the activity of "Satan". The appearance of the "antichrist", in particular, is supposed to be part of Satan's last gambit before he goes down to utter defeat.
Since it was asked of me how I would react if I were Satan, I think it's fair for me to answer. I know that "Satan" is supposed to be a being of superhuman intelligence, but I can't help thinking that if such a being actually existed and if I were that being, I could do a lot better.
If I were "Satan", I would scrap the antichrist plan. If it's all laid out in the Bible, then everyone knows what to expect and you've lost the element of surprise. With that one simple deviation from the prophetic scenario, the whole thing would be gummed up. No antichrist, no mark of the beast, no abomination of desolation, no anything I was supposed to do as Satan to set the stage for the return of Jesus. And without those prophetic components in place, Jesus couldn't return to fulfill prophecy. And how could anyone stop me? I wouldn't be taking some action which could be prevented; I would be defeating prophecy by not taking action.
So let me pass the preacher's question on to you. If you were "Satan", what would you do----or not do----to thwart prophecy?
If you were Satan....
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Re: If you were Satan....
Post #201[Replying to The Nice Centurion in post #199
I logically conclude that he theoretically could have, if Jesus should have returned by now and hasn't [and if "Satan" existed].So do you therefore logically conclude that in this way Satan has already thwarted Christs Second Coming prophecy?
Are you conceding that my scenario is viable? "Satan" not fulling his expected role rather than doing so would be the exact reverse of Christian prophecy.And why do you not comment on my answer to your OP question?
"If I were Satan and would want to thwart christian prophecy, I would try to do things exactly reverse to christian prophecy!".
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Re: If you were Satan....
Post #202I understand the idea of Antichrist having the information and so being able to change the course in order for prophecy to be sidestepped and I have said as much myself in the past here on this forum.
The main issue I have with the idea is that I think for Jesus to return in today's day & age the world would see this as an extra terrestrial event which would expose the gods as something more like humans than like the other dimensional beings - as they are portrayed - in the Bible.
So it is the timeline itself which has disrupted biblical prophecy from being fulfilled.
If we take considerations not only that the Antichrist is resisting the role assigned, but also the possibility The Father - that one alone, who gives the order for Jesus to return - may have already cancelled the event, which would explain why the timeline and consequent disruption occurred.
In that sense, both the plans of Jesus and the Antichrist have been set aside as redundant.
Q: what can we realistically point to in regards to the mark of the beast, which connects real events with the biblical description?
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We know that the mark is significant to the marketplace [Mark ET Place ] ...and what people can buy, sell, and generally wheel and deal with ... which amounts to food clothing shelter and health... all which are part of the social fabric of technological humanity.
We are informed that at some stage of the game people will not be able to access the market without having the mark of the beast on their right hand or on their forehead.
We we also should know and factor in that there has been an increase in internet conspiracy theories to do with the mark - one of the latest being - that covid virus vaccinations are administering a computer chip into human beings - and this idea of a computer chip embedded into the human being, has been associated with the mark since we entered into the technological epoch.
I remember my own days of Churching, I did some time in a Pentecostal new age setting, ET's [presented as the antichrist] 666 and 'chipping' rumors were well spread therein. That was in the 80's...42 years ago...
The main issue I have with the idea is that I think for Jesus to return in today's day & age the world would see this as an extra terrestrial event which would expose the gods as something more like humans than like the other dimensional beings - as they are portrayed - in the Bible.
So it is the timeline itself which has disrupted biblical prophecy from being fulfilled.
If we take considerations not only that the Antichrist is resisting the role assigned, but also the possibility The Father - that one alone, who gives the order for Jesus to return - may have already cancelled the event, which would explain why the timeline and consequent disruption occurred.
In that sense, both the plans of Jesus and the Antichrist have been set aside as redundant.
If we take into consideration one of your examples - that of the "Mark of the Beast", then this could be considered - re the subject and given the properties around that particular part of prophecy - so we could ask...No antichrist, no mark of the beast, no abomination of desolation, no anything I was supposed to do as Satan to set the stage for the return of Jesus.
Q: what can we realistically point to in regards to the mark of the beast, which connects real events with the biblical description?
________________________________
We know that the mark is significant to the marketplace [Mark ET Place ] ...and what people can buy, sell, and generally wheel and deal with ... which amounts to food clothing shelter and health... all which are part of the social fabric of technological humanity.
We are informed that at some stage of the game people will not be able to access the market without having the mark of the beast on their right hand or on their forehead.
We we also should know and factor in that there has been an increase in internet conspiracy theories to do with the mark - one of the latest being - that covid virus vaccinations are administering a computer chip into human beings - and this idea of a computer chip embedded into the human being, has been associated with the mark since we entered into the technological epoch.
I remember my own days of Churching, I did some time in a Pentecostal new age setting, ET's [presented as the antichrist] 666 and 'chipping' rumors were well spread therein. That was in the 80's...42 years ago...
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Re: If you were Satan....
Post #203[Replying to William in post #202
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Thus far, nothing. There's no single, universal thing anyone must have in order to buy or sell.what can we realistically point to in regards to the mark of the beast, which connects real events with the biblical description?
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Re: If you were Satan....
Post #204What about a personal signature?Athetotheist wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 6:00 pm [Replying to William in post #202Thus far, nothing. There's no single, universal thing anyone must have in order to buy or sell.what can we realistically point to in regards to the mark of the beast, which connects real events with the biblical description?
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Re: If you were Satan....
Post #205You may be wrong here! I can do think of some things there ! But maybe a new thread would be better for FULLFILLED SIGNS OF THE ANTICHRIST ?Athetotheist wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 6:00 pm [Replying to William in post #202Thus far, nothing. There's no single, universal thing anyone must have in order to buy or sell.what can we realistically point to in regards to the mark of the beast, which connects real events with the biblical description?
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"Only Experts in Reformed Egyptian should be allowed to critique the Book of Mormon!"
"Joseph Smith can't possibly have been a deceiver.
For if he had been, the Angel Moroni never would have taken the risk of enthrusting him with the Golden Plates"
"Only Experts in Reformed Egyptian should be allowed to critique the Book of Mormon!"
"Joseph Smith can't possibly have been a deceiver.
For if he had been, the Angel Moroni never would have taken the risk of enthrusting him with the Golden Plates"
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Re: If you were Satan....
Post #206Now I am absolutely sure that the argumentation from your side goes like that of an unearnest christian apologetic .Athetotheist wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:38 pm [Replying to The Nice Centurion in post #199I logically conclude that he theoretically could have, if Jesus should have returned by now and hasn't [and if "Satan" existed].So do you therefore logically conclude that in this way Satan has already thwarted Christs Second Coming prophecy?
Are you conceding that my scenario is viable? "Satan" not fulling his expected role rather than doing so would be the exact reverse of Christian prophecy.And why do you not comment on my answer to your OP question?
"If I were Satan and would want to thwart christian prophecy, I would try to do things exactly reverse to christian prophecy!".
You do everything to avoid a direct comment on my answer. So much, that you prefer to give a counter question instead.
I understand of course the logic of your scenario. It might be viable.
But you seem not to get the many many problems that come with your scenario.
Them problems are getting more and more as I think about it:
There is no definitive exegetic of prophecys that is absolutely proven right! (Some denominations do not even see the antichrist as a person). Should we try to find out "mainstream christianitys" stand here and go with that? If yes, it might be easier said then done, for americas mainstream christianity (evangelical) is not, for example, europes (Catholic). (Here the book of Robert Price where he comments on Left behind series and also decribes the different endtimes of different denominations might be of interest.)
But even evangelicals differ vigorously in their endtime exegetic. The evangelical Left Behind authors were therefore massively shunned by some other evangelicals.
Is it really Satan who sets the Antichrist in stage? Can Satan read the prophecys correctly?
That Satan is not able to thwart prophecy is an important part of christian mythology. Your scenario commentarless negates that.
Even if your scenario is viable and Satan goes with it, how are we to know that we or him read prophecy correctly. His very inactivity could activate fullfillment of prophecy. For we are not sure what prophecy says.
Are the prophecys prophecys after all? All right - We have to assume that 'cause prophecy is as clearly officially part of christian mythology as Satan.
But does Satan think it a good idea to thwart prophecy even if he reads it correctly and is able to thwart?
After all: Not yet fullfilled prophecy is possible to be fullfilled in the past!
Please comment directly on my answer to your OP.
And on my new answer here: Satan could time travel, if he is able to, and hinder the prophecys to be made.
So prophecy would be also thwarted in a way.
“If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. But if you drown a man in a fish pond, he will never have to go hungry again.”
"Only Experts in Reformed Egyptian should be allowed to critique the Book of Mormon!"
"Joseph Smith can't possibly have been a deceiver.
For if he had been, the Angel Moroni never would have taken the risk of enthrusting him with the Golden Plates"
"Only Experts in Reformed Egyptian should be allowed to critique the Book of Mormon!"
"Joseph Smith can't possibly have been a deceiver.
For if he had been, the Angel Moroni never would have taken the risk of enthrusting him with the Golden Plates"
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Re: If you were Satan....
Post #207Does anyone have to wear their personal signature as a mark in their right hand or on their forehead? Is everyone's personal signature the name of the beast or the number of the beast's name?William wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 6:07 pmWhat about a personal signature?Athetotheist wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 6:00 pm [Replying to William in post #202Thus far, nothing. There's no single, universal thing anyone must have in order to buy or sell.what can we realistically point to in regards to the mark of the beast, which connects real events with the biblical description?
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Does anyone use a personal signature when they pay cash to buy produce at a farmer's market?
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Re: If you were Satan....
Post #208[Replying to Athetotheist in post #207]
What about the PASSWORD you need if you want to buy/pay something online ?
What about the PASSWORD you need if you want to buy/pay something online ?
“If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. But if you drown a man in a fish pond, he will never have to go hungry again.”
"Only Experts in Reformed Egyptian should be allowed to critique the Book of Mormon!"
"Joseph Smith can't possibly have been a deceiver.
For if he had been, the Angel Moroni never would have taken the risk of enthrusting him with the Golden Plates"
"Only Experts in Reformed Egyptian should be allowed to critique the Book of Mormon!"
"Joseph Smith can't possibly have been a deceiver.
For if he had been, the Angel Moroni never would have taken the risk of enthrusting him with the Golden Plates"
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Re: If you were Satan....
Post #209Does everyone in the world shop online?The Nice Centurion wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 9:11 pm [Replying to Athetotheist in post #207]
What about the PASSWORD you need if you want to buy/pay something online ?
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Re: If you were Satan....
Post #210[Replying to The Nice Centurion in post #206
I asked a counter question and commented on your answer.You do everything to avoid a direct comment on my answer. So much, that you prefer to give a counter question instead.
You want to go with that, fine. But even if "Satan" could time travel, he might potentially be prevented from time traveling, whereas he couldn't be prevented from choosing not to do something.And on my new answer here: Satan could time travel, if he is able to, and hinder the prophecys to be made.
So prophecy would be also thwarted in a way.