Are Religious Beliefs Delusional?

[Diogenes]

In clinical practice, no clear guidelines exist to distinguish between "normal" religious beliefs and "pathological" religious delusions. Historically, psychiatrists such as Freud have suggested that all religious beliefs are delusional, while the current DSM-IV definition of delusion exempts religious doctrine from pathology altogether. ....
Religious beliefs and delusions alike can arise from neurologic lesions and anomalous experiences, suggesting that at least some religious beliefs can be pathological. Religious beliefs exist outside of the scientific domain; therefore they can be easily labeled delusional from a rational perspective.....

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15990520/
The question for debate is stated in the title, Are Religious Beliefs Delusional?
A subordinate question: Should we distinguish between a learned belief in supernatural phenomena and those who believe and attribute their beliefs to personal experience... and how could we tell?

[Inquirer]

I just answered "[it is misleading] for the SAME reason that calling an aeroplane a handsaw is misleading"?

What's the reason? Why are you trying to turn this into a staring contest instead of answering a straightforward question about what you mean?

Must we beat this to death? An aeroplane is not a handsaw, God is not a ghost, suggesting they are is to mislead, this is called definition by way of example.

William's comments were insightful:

William: A "religious belief" has to do with the branch of Theism which attempts to Dress The Ghost - [dressing The Ghost through the use of imagery is an attempt to make The Ghost be seen.] which is what religion does with the idea of GOD...this itself stems from the idea that we exist within a creation, something which still hasn't been established.
Thus Theism - and the religious branch in particular, place the cart before the horse.

It isn't immediately obvious that when folk are yapping about "GOD" they are talking about a Ghost. Same as when folk yap about Spirits....

You insultingly dismissed them without explanation:

Sorry, but that's delusional, God and ghosts are entirely different things not the same.

Well, I do regard the following claim as false, this is the part you left out:

when folk are yapping about "GOD" they are talking about a Ghost.

Sorry, but they are different things, this is not dismissing what was said it is disputing it. God is real and created the universe and us too, whereas "ghost" is a fictional construct, I will not hesitate in calling out such errors.

Belief in a claim that is false is or could be, an example of a delusion, the very subject of the thread.

You then went on to dismiss JoeyKnothead's observation that the Authorized Version refers to the Holy Ghost.

You haven't explained what the difference is in reference either to William's comment or the Authorized Version, only derisively hinted that it's self-explanatory. I suspect that you and William had slightly different meanings in mind for "ghost" such that both of your statements are true from a particular point of view. That happens sometimes, but when it's intentional, it's equivocation. Is it intentional? Is that why you don't want to define your terms? Are you concerned that someone might find a narrower word or phrase that's more accurate, but just as unflattering to theists? If not, why is it so important to you that we guess at what you're talking about?

Nor have I explained "what the difference is" between an aeroplane and handsaw, yet you seem completely unconcerned about that, perhaps that's just unintentional though...it happens sometimes as you know...

[William]

[Replying to Inquirer in post #71]

If the Inquirer thinks GOD is different from that, then I agree with JK and Diogenes and Difflugia that the Inquirer has to clearly explain the difference so we might all better understand the protest the Inquirer is making re the accusation being made that I am being 'misleading'.

[JoeyKnothead]

If the Inquirer thinks GOD is different from that, then I agree with JK and Diogenes and Difflugia that the Inquirer has to clearly explain the difference so we might all better understand the protest the Inquirer is making re the accusation being made that I am being 'misleading'.

On my bolding...

My friend can and does present ideas confounding and confusing, discombobulating and sometimes maybe a bit discomforting to folks stuck in their own little way of thinking. His ideas've kept me awake at night, shaking my fist in a fury, my brain struggling to find a counter that never comes. I've cursed his name, and his ideas - cause that's my internal process as I debate him, my friend.

But NEVER does he stoop so low as to mislead, with a rule proving exception...

Mislead a debater into a logical or other mental trap? If, on the off chance, should that ever happen, that, to me, is just a part of this game we play, and is fair ball. He'll either fess when called on it, or let ya know ya missed it that he did.

Anyone who thinks William needs to nefariously mislead to win his points in debate has already lost the debate with him. Right or wrong, the man comes honest as I do goofy.

[Inquirer]

[Replying to Inquirer in post #71]

If the Inquirer thinks GOD is different from that, then I agree with JK and Diogenes and Difflugia that the Inquirer has to clearly explain the difference so we might all better understand the protest the Inquirer is making re the accusation being made that I am being 'misleading'.

I never said or meant to imply you were being misleading, misled perhaps but not misleading. I said the term "ghost" is misleading because it is a conflation. (Granted, I did accuse you of being delusional, and I was rightly pulled up for that by the moderator).

Even a cursory bit of research will quickly show that God and ghost are different, I'm not going to waste my time copying and pasting all of these definitions, you can see for yourself that they are not the same, they mean different things.

[William]

[Replying to Inquirer in post #74]

"They mean different things" is debatable. Certainly it has been pointed out that folk who wrote this stuff did indeed think there was no difference.
If folk in today's modern environment believe these are different - then making protest AND not explaining the difference, is really the misleading aspect of the whole process. Jumping up and down and calling 'fowl' [or 'delusional' or 'spawn of Satan' et al] does not and cannot explain anything in the way of clearing up a possible misunderstanding.

On that, the onus is on the accuser to step up and make that clarity known...

"GOD" is NOT a GHOST because [_____________________]...
So either explain yourself or withdrawn with a white flag clearly visible...

but please - enough of the making of excuses...

[Inquirer]

[Replying to Inquirer in post #74]

"They mean different things" is debatable. Certainly it has been pointed out that folk who wrote this stuff did indeed think there was no difference.

What evidence do you have to support this latest claim about what the writers thought? You now claim to know their thoughts? and this is a science thread?

If folk in today's modern environment believe these are different - then making protest AND not explaining the difference, is really the misleading aspect of the whole process. Jumping up and down and calling 'fowl' [or 'delusional' or 'spawn of Satan' et al] does not and cannot explain anything in the way of clearing up a possible misunderstanding.

I cannot help you understand, that is your responsibility.

On that, the onus is on the accuser to step up and make that clarity known...

"GOD" is NOT a GHOST because [_____________________]...
So either explain yourself or withdrawn with a white flag clearly visible...

but please - enough of the making of excuses...

What evidence do you have to support your contention that God and ghost mean the same thing? You said it yet cannot defend it. You have conflated God with ghost.

[William]

[Replying to Inquirer in post #76]

You have conflated God with ghost.

How do you know that? What difference is there between the one and the other that anyone has shown?

[Inquirer]

[Replying to Inquirer in post #76]

You have conflated God with ghost.

How do you know that? What difference is there between the one and the other that anyone has shown?

There are many scientists who believe in God but I've never met one who believes in ghosts, have you?

[William]

[Replying to Inquirer in post #78]

What do these 'many scientists' tell us that this God they believe in, is - if not a Ghost?

[Inquirer]

[Replying to Inquirer in post #78]

What do these 'many scientists' tell us that this God they believe in, is - if not a Ghost?

Good question, but you asked me if there was any difference between God and ghosts so I showed you one.