Are Religious Beliefs Delusional?

[Diogenes]

In clinical practice, no clear guidelines exist to distinguish between "normal" religious beliefs and "pathological" religious delusions. Historically, psychiatrists such as Freud have suggested that all religious beliefs are delusional, while the current DSM-IV definition of delusion exempts religious doctrine from pathology altogether. ....
Religious beliefs and delusions alike can arise from neurologic lesions and anomalous experiences, suggesting that at least some religious beliefs can be pathological. Religious beliefs exist outside of the scientific domain; therefore they can be easily labeled delusional from a rational perspective.....

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15990520/
The question for debate is stated in the title, Are Religious Beliefs Delusional?
A subordinate question: Should we distinguish between a learned belief in supernatural phenomena and those who believe and attribute their beliefs to personal experience... and how could we tell?

[Clownboat]

A delusion is a subjective experience first and foremost.

OK.

To the person experiencing it it has a real effect, experiencing a delusion is a real experience, like when we dream.

Ok.

If you experience something that I do not then does that make it a delusion?

No

I have to wonder why you even bother to post sometimes.

I answered all of your questions and cannot fathom why they are relevant. Did you have a point to make that we could discuss? You don't seem to want to discuss Christian contradictions like the Trinity delusion nor any talking animals or living in the belly of a whale, so I'm left wondering what the purpose of your words was.

So again, this thread is about delusional religious beliefs (like talking donkeys and living in a whale etc...), not about biblical contradictions like the Trinity. Thanks for pointing it out though.

[William]

You don't seem to want to discuss Christian contradictions like the Trinity delusion nor any talking animals or living in the belly of a whale, so I'm left wondering what the purpose of your words was.

So again, this thread is about delusional religious beliefs (like talking donkeys and living in a whale etc...), not about biblical contradictions like the Trinity. Thanks for pointing it out though.

I don't know if this could be counted as religious or delusion but the expression "In the Belly of a Whale" makes me think of this - apparently real - picture



Okay - it is different from the usual image of a Whale - but this planet seems to suit the image...will you join me in sharing that "delusion" or is it too scary going that deep?



According to some non-theists, there is such a thing as a 'talking animal'. If a planet could talk, I wonder what it would have to say and would the talking animal know what to listen for?

[Inquirer]

A delusion is a subjective experience first and foremost.

OK.

To the person experiencing it it has a real effect, experiencing a delusion is a real experience, like when we dream.

Ok.

If you experience something that I do not then does that make it a delusion?

No

I have to wonder why you even bother to post sometimes.

I answered all of your questions and cannot fathom why they are relevant. Did you have a point to make that we could discuss? You don't seem to want to discuss Christian contradictions like the Trinity delusion nor any talking animals or living in the belly of a whale, so I'm left wondering what the purpose of your words was.

So again, this thread is about delusional religious beliefs (like talking donkeys and living in a whale etc...), not about biblical contradictions like the Trinity. Thanks for pointing it out though.

The Trinity is not a delusion it is an interpretation, consider quantum physics, ever heard of the "Copenhagen interpretation" and the "many worlds interpretation"? The Bible just as in science, has interpretations.

By the way, how did you establish that the Jonah story is a delusion?

In my experience differing interpretations of scripture (that is possible ambiguity) is a reminder to us to retain an open mind, that there are other ways to look at things. Getting fixated on this or that specific interpretation I (often) feel is a mistake, if things seems to be contradictory then keep looking, just as we do on physics.

[Diagoras]

Getting fixated on this or that specific interpretation I (often) feel is a mistake, if things seems to be contradictory then keep looking…

Agreed.

…, just as we do on physics.

But there is an obvious and significant difference between scripture and physics. In the latter, experiments can be performed to test those differing theories (or ‘interpretations’), and the observations from those experiments can lead to one (or none, or both) being discarded.

To be reasonably sure that the Trinity was not a delusion, we’d need some more compelling evidence of it existing.

[Inquirer]

Getting fixated on this or that specific interpretation I (often) feel is a mistake, if things seems to be contradictory then keep looking…

Agreed.

…, just as we do on physics.

But there is an obvious and significant difference between scripture and physics. In the latter, experiments can be performed to test those differing theories (or ‘interpretations’), and the observations from those experiments can lead to one (or none, or both) being discarded.

To be reasonably sure that the Trinity was not a delusion, we’d need some more compelling evidence of it existing.

But experiments can be performed that test what the Bible says. Consider Adam who tested God, he was told he would surely die, disregarded that, disbelieved it and he later died.

[brunumb]

Getting fixated on this or that specific interpretation I (often) feel is a mistake, if things seems to be contradictory then keep looking…

Agreed.

…, just as we do on physics.

But there is an obvious and significant difference between scripture and physics. In the latter, experiments can be performed to test those differing theories (or ‘interpretations’), and the observations from those experiments can lead to one (or none, or both) being discarded.

To be reasonably sure that the Trinity was not a delusion, we’d need some more compelling evidence of it existing.

But experiments can be performed that test what the Bible says. Consider Adam who tested God, he was told he would surely die, disregarded that, disbelieved it and he later died.

What experiment can be performed to test whether that story is true or not?

[Inquirer]

Getting fixated on this or that specific interpretation I (often) feel is a mistake, if things seems to be contradictory then keep looking…

Agreed.

…, just as we do on physics.

But there is an obvious and significant difference between scripture and physics. In the latter, experiments can be performed to test those differing theories (or ‘interpretations’), and the observations from those experiments can lead to one (or none, or both) being discarded.

To be reasonably sure that the Trinity was not a delusion, we’d need some more compelling evidence of it existing.

But experiments can be performed that test what the Bible says. Consider Adam who tested God, he was told he would surely die, disregarded that, disbelieved it and he later died.

What experiment can be performed to test whether that story is true or not?

Well that's something we must face for any story about the past, but the point was that one can test what God says for oneself and see how things work out, we can do as Adam did.

For example you could assume God does exist, you could assume God created us, you could assume the Bible is inspired and represents revealed spiritual knowledge, you could do that and see what happens. Or you can carry on seeking material knowledge about the material creation and trust in your own reasoning.

[Difflugia]

Well that's something we must face for any story about the past, but the point was that one can test what God says for oneself and see how things work out, we can do as Adam did.

For example you could assume God does exist, you could assume God created us, you could assume the Bible is inspired and represents revealed spiritual knowledge, you could do that and see what happens. Or you can carry on seeking material knowledge about the material creation and trust in your own reasoning.

Your "methods" section needs a bit of fleshing out.

[Inquirer]

Well that's something we must face for any story about the past, but the point was that one can test what God says for oneself and see how things work out, we can do as Adam did.

For example you could assume God does exist, you could assume God created us, you could assume the Bible is inspired and represents revealed spiritual knowledge, you could do that and see what happens. Or you can carry on seeking material knowledge about the material creation and trust in your own reasoning.

Your "methods" section needs a bit of fleshing out.

Each in their own time, just be patient.

[Clownboat]

The Trinity is not a delusion

Take it up with Christians that claim it is. I'm open to being shown that the odd claims (many of which seem delusional) are true if you can show such a thing.

it is an interpretation, consider quantum physics, ever heard of the "Copenhagen interpretation" and the "many worlds interpretation"? The Bible just as in science, has interpretations.

Um... yes... the Bible has lots of interpretations.

By the way, how did you establish that the Jonah story is a delusion?

Humans cannot live in a fish/whale for days on end. To think that they can is to be delusional. It would be like claiming that humans can fly to heaven on a winged horse, surely something that would also be delusional.

In my experience differing interpretations of scripture (that is possible ambiguity) is a reminder to us to retain an open mind, that there are other ways to look at things.

Ya, but you have a religious belief and a immortality and a heaven and seeing loved ones to lose. Too much bias affecting your thinking IMO.
In reality, it is not logical that a god would create a message for everyone, yet require pastors, priest and theologians to interpret said message.