Are Religious Beliefs Delusional?

[Diogenes]

In clinical practice, no clear guidelines exist to distinguish between "normal" religious beliefs and "pathological" religious delusions. Historically, psychiatrists such as Freud have suggested that all religious beliefs are delusional, while the current DSM-IV definition of delusion exempts religious doctrine from pathology altogether. ....
Religious beliefs and delusions alike can arise from neurologic lesions and anomalous experiences, suggesting that at least some religious beliefs can be pathological. Religious beliefs exist outside of the scientific domain; therefore they can be easily labeled delusional from a rational perspective.....

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15990520/
The question for debate is stated in the title, Are Religious Beliefs Delusional?
A subordinate question: Should we distinguish between a learned belief in supernatural phenomena and those who believe and attribute their beliefs to personal experience... and how could we tell?

[Clownboat]

But experiments can be performed that test what the Bible says. Consider Adam who tested God, he was told he would surely die, disregarded that, disbelieved it and he later died.

Adam is said to have lived 930 years. You lose a bit of credibility when you just say he 'later died'.

It is delusional to believe that humans can live to the age of over 900. Surely you agree!

I submit that clear delusions (930 year old humans, living in a whale, donkeys and snakes talking) are missed by many when they come with a promise of a heaven and immortality.

[Inquirer]

The Trinity is not a delusion

Take it up with Christians that claim it is. I'm open to being shown that the odd claims (many of which seem delusional) are true if you can show such a thing.

it is an interpretation, consider quantum physics, ever heard of the "Copenhagen interpretation" and the "many worlds interpretation"? The Bible just as in science, has interpretations.

Um... yes... the Bible has lots of interpretations.

By the way, how did you establish that the Jonah story is a delusion?

Humans cannot live in a fish/whale for days on end.

Nonsense, unless you can prove that then it just a belief, a reasonable one I admit, but beliefs can be mistaken, exceptions are conceivable.

To think that they can is to be delusional. It would be like claiming that humans can fly to heaven on a winged horse, surely something that would also be delusional.

No it isn't. Not sharing a belief with you, does not a delusion make.

In my experience differing interpretations of scripture (that is possible ambiguity) is a reminder to us to retain an open mind, that there are other ways to look at things.

Ya, but you have a religious belief and a immortality and a heaven and seeing loved ones to lose. Too much bias affecting your thinking IMO.
In reality, it is not logical that a god would create a message for everyone, yet require pastors, priest and theologians to interpret said message.

That right there is your interpretation of what Christianity truly is, I do not see it anything like that at all.

[Inquirer]

But experiments can be performed that test what the Bible says. Consider Adam who tested God, he was told he would surely die, disregarded that, disbelieved it and he later died.

Adam is said to have lived 930 years. You lose a bit of credibility when you just say he 'later died'.

Why do you say that? do you think he didn't die?

It is delusional to believe that humans can live to the age of over 900. Surely you agree!

No more delusional than believing mud can eventually give rise to flowers, birds and people all by itself.

I submit that clear delusions (930 year old humans, living in a whale, donkeys and snakes talking) are missed by many when they come with a promise of a heaven and immortality.

I don't regard Biblical claims as true or plausible because some promise is conditional upon that. In fact Christ made it clear that to receive eternal life all that's necessary is to believe he was God's son, that's it, no rules or regulations and so on, Christs conversations with the Pharisees make this clear.

I'm a "universalist" that is it seems to me that every person who ever lived will eventually be saved, redeemed, gain eternal life, none of the eternal torture and pain that medieval Christianity invented.

Many things that turn people away from Christ are not really Biblical, just traditions or interpretations, yet those misunderstandings can block someone.

Salvation is - to me - mainly about self reflection, a willingness and preparedness to admit error, to admit that ego drives us, to admit that we are stubborn, adopt beliefs for selfish reasons and so on. It is about changing, us changing to rely less on ourselves and more on God.

[Clownboat]

Humans cannot live in a fish/whale for days on end.

Nonsense, unless you can prove that then it just a belief, a reasonable one I admit, but beliefs can be mistaken, exceptions are conceivable.

Let the record show, that to the claim that humans cannot live in a fish/whale for days on end is considered to be 'nonsense'.

No it isn't. Not sharing a belief with you, does not a delusion make.

Not what I said. What I said was: "It would be like claiming that humans can fly to heaven on a winged horse, surely something that would also be delusional."
I must retract this now that I'm aware that you think living in a fish/whale for days on end is sensical. For the rest of us, flying to heaven on a winged horse most assuredly is nonsensical. Outside of books and movies of course.

Ya, but you have a religious belief and a immortality and a heaven and seeing loved ones to lose. Too much bias affecting your thinking IMO.
In reality, it is not logical that a god would create a message for everyone, yet require pastors, priest and theologians to interpret said message.

That right there is your interpretation of what Christianity truly is, I do not see it anything like that at all.

Correct, and you have no rebuttal, so my words ring true.

If your neighbor insisted that Allah allowed them to speak with and understand animals, would you consider this statement to be delusional or not?
What if your neighbor said their cat could speak? Would you need to investigate, or would you consider it a delusion?

Your answers may provide a lot of information to the topic at hand.

[Clownboat]

Adam is said to have lived 930 years. You lose a bit of credibility when you just say he 'later died'.

Why do you say that? do you think he didn't die?

Yes, clearly I claim that Adam never died.
Readers, what do you think I meant? At this point I don't care if Inquirer is grapsing the point or not.

It is delusional to believe that humans can live to the age of over 900. Surely you agree!

No more delusional than believing mud can eventually give rise to flowers, birds and people all by itself.

So you do believe humans can live to be over 900. This sir, is a delusional religoius belief.
Are religious beliefs delusional? Clearly some are.

I submit that clear delusions (930 year old humans, living in a whale, donkeys and snakes talking) are missed by many when they come with a promise of a heaven and immortality.

I don't regard Biblical claims as true or plausible because some promise is conditional upon that.

Regardless, clear delusions (930 year old humans, living in a whale, donkeys and snakes talking) are missed by many when they come with a promise of a heaven and immortality.

[Inquirer]

Adam is said to have lived 930 years. You lose a bit of credibility when you just say he 'later died'.

Why do you say that? do you think he didn't die?

Yes, clearly I claim that Adam never died.
Readers, what do you think I meant? At this point I don't care if Inquirer is grapsing the point or not.

It is delusional to believe that humans can live to the age of over 900. Surely you agree!

No more delusional than believing mud can eventually give rise to flowers, birds and people all by itself.

So you do believe humans can live to be over 900. This sir, is a delusional religoius belief.
Are religious beliefs delusional? Clearly some are.

I submit that clear delusions (930 year old humans, living in a whale, donkeys and snakes talking) are missed by many when they come with a promise of a heaven and immortality.

I don't regard Biblical claims as true or plausible because some promise is conditional upon that.

Regardless, clear delusions (930 year old humans, living in a whale, donkeys and snakes talking) are missed by many when they come with a promise of a heaven and immortality.

People like Richard Dawkins who love to sensationalize things and love to characterize their intellectual opponents in extreme ways like labelling theists as "delusional" when he's not a psychiatrist are nothing but trouble.

Psychiatrists deal with some very troubled people, schizophrenics and others for whom they reserve the word "delusional". These are very troubled people, their lives are often a misery, they need round the clock loving care and attention, they can't hold down a job, cook or manage money.

The glib way some people in this forum throw the word around does not do their case much good but then again if people like Dawkins are their role models it's no surprise.

So tell me then what evidence do you have that nobody has ever lived to an age of 900+ years? If people had then why should that not have been written down and preserved?

[Jose Fly]

It is delusional to believe that humans can live to the age of over 900. Surely you agree!

No more delusional than believing mud can eventually give rise to flowers, birds and people all by itself.

Really? Walk us through the evidence for humans living over 900 years.

[Inquirer]

It is delusional to believe that humans can live to the age of over 900. Surely you agree!

No more delusional than believing mud can eventually give rise to flowers, birds and people all by itself.

Really? Walk us through the evidence for humans living over 900 years.

There is documentary evidence, records from the distant past. Walk yourself through if you're that interested. Perhaps ask Barbarian, as an evolutionist I'm sure he's explored this question.

[Jose Fly]

There is documentary evidence, records from the distant past.

Are you saying that "it was written in a book" is evidence something occurred, on equal footing with the evidence for common ancestry?

Walk yourself through if you're that interested. Perhaps ask Barbarian, as an evolutionist I'm sure he's explored this question.

Nope, not playing the shifting the burden of proof game. You made the claim, so it falls on you to support it.

[Inquirer]

There is documentary evidence, records from the distant past.

Are you saying that "it was written in a book" is evidence something occurred, on equal footing with the evidence for common ancestry?

Let's see if I said that shall we? let me see, what does it say above in that quote: "There is documentary evidence, records from the distant past" no mention there of "equal footing" or "common ancestry" so no, I said what I said: "There is documentary evidence, records from the distant past" which is a true statement.

Walk yourself through if you're that interested. Perhaps ask Barbarian, as an evolutionist I'm sure he's explored this question.

Nope, not playing the shifting the burden of proof game. You made the claim, so it falls on you to support it.

The claim was there's documentary evidence, records from antiquity, it's a true statement, what more do you want from me? to show you a Bible?