Does consciousness exist?

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Wootah
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Does consciousness exist?

Post #1

Post by Wootah »

Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: Does consciousness exist?

Post #71

Post by Inquirer »

William wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:45 am
JoeyKnothead wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 4:49 pm
Inquirer wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 4:41 pm I don't believe in a magic man up in the sky
Yet you post as if you do.
JoeyKnothead wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 4:13 pm Projection is a poor method of debate.
Why?
When you can gather you up the gumption to answer questions I put to you, I'll be happy to answer the ones you put to me.
Fair enough. A bit of give and take is helpful...

I think projection is poor because it is that which contributes to strawman fallacies...

Image
Oh I see, its playing the amateur psychiatrist game, seems like an intellectually poor excuse for objecting to an opponents argument.

"that's not an argument, you're just projecting" etc.

Even if someone was "projecting" that wouldn't invalidate their argument, I could "project" yet still be making a solid argument, I've never heard anyone whine about "projecting" in any proper debates like the one's I see on Youtube at universities and so on.

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Re: Does consciousness exist?

Post #72

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Inquirer wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:10 pm Oh I see, its playing the amateur psychiatrist game, seems like an intellectually poor excuse for objecting to an opponents argument.
Pointing out projection need not be an implication regarding one's psychiatric state. Though it's curious you'd fret about it.
"that's not an argument, you're just projecting" etc.
It's also curious you'd find the simple noting of projection to include an implication of a lack of argument.
Even if someone was "projecting" that wouldn't invalidate their argument, I could "project" yet still be making a solid argument, I've never heard anyone whine about "projecting" in any proper debates like the one's I see on Youtube at universities and so on.
I propose you might find less "whining" about projection, if you'd do you less of it.
Discovery is finding things that exist.
Invention is using things discovered.

Create that path and engineer a metamorphosis.

- William

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Re: Does consciousness exist?

Post #73

Post by Inquirer »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:28 pm
Inquirer wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:10 pm Oh I see, its playing the amateur psychiatrist game, seems like an intellectually poor excuse for objecting to an opponents argument.
Pointing out projection need not be an implication regarding one's psychiatric state. Though it's curious you'd fret about it.
"that's not an argument, you're just projecting" etc.
It's also curious you'd find the simple noting of projection to include an implication of a lack of argument.
Even if someone was "projecting" that wouldn't invalidate their argument, I could "project" yet still be making a solid argument, I've never heard anyone whine about "projecting" in any proper debates like the one's I see on Youtube at universities and so on.
I propose you might find less "whining" about projection, if you'd do you less of it.
Lets stop there shall we? No more personal remarks from either of us - projection is a claim about someone's presumed motives for making an argument, but motives are irrelevant. Focus on arguments not why we think someone is making the argument.

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Re: Does consciousness exist?

Post #74

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Inquirer wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:34 am
JoeyKnothead wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:28 pm
Inquirer wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:10 pm Oh I see, its playing the amateur psychiatrist game, seems like an intellectually poor excuse for objecting to an opponents argument.
Pointing out projection need not be an implication regarding one's psychiatric state. Though it's curious you'd fret about it.
"that's not an argument, you're just projecting" etc.
It's also curious you'd find the simple noting of projection to include an implication of a lack of argument.
Even if someone was "projecting" that wouldn't invalidate their argument, I could "project" yet still be making a solid argument, I've never heard anyone whine about "projecting" in any proper debates like the one's I see on Youtube at universities and so on.
I propose you might find less "whining" about projection, if you'd do you less of it.
Lets stop there shall we?
Okay...
No more personal remarks from either of us - projection is a claim about someone's presumed motives for making an argument, but motives are irrelevant. Focus on arguments not why we think someone is making the argument.
"Let's stop right there. We'll, I mean right after I get me this bit in."

I have previously, and will now again, explain to you that an accusation of projection is NOT necessarily an accusation of personal motives.

It's simply denoting a common method of discourse. That you find a noting of fact to be a personal afront is NOT my problem.

I will NOT stop commenting as I see fit simply cause you find my comments bring you discomfort.

Even if the shoe fits, ain't nobody forcing you to wear it, but you.
Discovery is finding things that exist.
Invention is using things discovered.

Create that path and engineer a metamorphosis.

- William

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Re: Does consciousness exist?

Post #75

Post by Inquirer »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:20 am
Inquirer wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:34 am
JoeyKnothead wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:28 pm
Inquirer wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:10 pm Oh I see, its playing the amateur psychiatrist game, seems like an intellectually poor excuse for objecting to an opponents argument.
Pointing out projection need not be an implication regarding one's psychiatric state. Though it's curious you'd fret about it.
"that's not an argument, you're just projecting" etc.
It's also curious you'd find the simple noting of projection to include an implication of a lack of argument.
Even if someone was "projecting" that wouldn't invalidate their argument, I could "project" yet still be making a solid argument, I've never heard anyone whine about "projecting" in any proper debates like the one's I see on Youtube at universities and so on.
I propose you might find less "whining" about projection, if you'd do you less of it.
Lets stop there shall we?
Okay...
No more personal remarks from either of us - projection is a claim about someone's presumed motives for making an argument, but motives are irrelevant. Focus on arguments not why we think someone is making the argument.
"Let's stop right there. We'll, I mean right after I get me this bit in."

I have previously, and will now again, explain to you that an accusation of projection is NOT necessarily an accusation of personal motives.

It's simply denoting a common method of discourse. That you find a noting of fact to be a personal afront is NOT my problem.

I will NOT stop commenting as I see fit simply cause you find my comments bring you discomfort.

Even if the shoe fits, ain't nobody forcing you to wear it, but you.
If I made a mathematical argument, made some case that some theorem appears to be true because of X and Y, do you think there is a mathematician in the world who would counter argue by claiming the proponent is "projecting"?

Here's a definition I just looked up for "projecting":
unconsciously taking unwanted emotions or traits you don't like about yourself and attributing them to someone else
Perhaps then it is you who is projecting? perhaps you don't like thus personal trait you have of projecting so you attribute it to me, how ironic the true projector is the one who accuses others of projecting!

This is why personal remarks, personal opinions about the character, mental state, beliefs, motives of one's opponent are frowned upon, it should have stopped in the school yard, it has no place in true respectful discourse.

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Re: Does consciousness exist?

Post #76

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Inquirer wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:13 pm If I made a mathematical argument, made some case that some theorem appears to be true because of X and Y, do you think there is a mathematician in the world who would counter argue by claiming the proponent is "projecting"?
You weren't making a mathematical argument.

This tactic is called deflection.
Here's a definition I just looked up for "projecting":
unconsciously taking unwanted emotions or traits you don't like about yourself and attributing them to someone else
Please provide a link to the referenced definition, so we can eliminate the possibility of cherry picking or other unscrupulous tactics.
Perhaps then it is you who is projecting? perhaps you don't like thus personal trait you have of projecting so you attribute it to me, how ironic the true projector is the one who accuses others of projecting!
Pointing out a fact is hardly projecting.
This is why personal remarks, personal opinions about the character, mental state, beliefs, motives of one's opponent are frowned upon, it should have stopped in the school yard, it has no place in true respectful discourse.
You might find more comfort here if you quit taking facts as some kind of personal attack.
Discovery is finding things that exist.
Invention is using things discovered.

Create that path and engineer a metamorphosis.

- William

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Re: Does consciousness exist?

Post #77

Post by Inquirer »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:42 pm
Inquirer wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:13 pm If I made a mathematical argument, made some case that some theorem appears to be true because of X and Y, do you think there is a mathematician in the world who would counter argue by claiming the proponent is "projecting"?
You weren't making a mathematical argument.

This tactic is called deflection.
Here's a definition I just looked up for "projecting":
unconsciously taking unwanted emotions or traits you don't like about yourself and attributing them to someone else
Please provide a link to the referenced definition, so we can eliminate the possibility of cherry picking or other unscrupulous tactics.
Perhaps then it is you who is projecting? perhaps you don't like thus personal trait you have of projecting so you attribute it to me, how ironic the true projector is the one who accuses others of projecting!
Pointing out a fact is hardly projecting.
This is why personal remarks, personal opinions about the character, mental state, beliefs, motives of one's opponent are frowned upon, it should have stopped in the school yard, it has no place in true respectful discourse.
You might find more comfort here if you quit taking facts as some kind of personal attack.
Is this truly how you like to spend time here?

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Re: Does consciousness exist?

Post #78

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Inquirer wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:38 pm
JoeyKnothead wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:42 pm
Inquirer wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:13 pm If I made a mathematical argument, made some case that some theorem appears to be true because of X and Y, do you think there is a mathematician in the world who would counter argue by claiming the proponent is "projecting"?
You weren't making a mathematical argument.

This tactic is called deflection.
Here's a definition I just looked up for "projecting":
unconsciously taking unwanted emotions or traits you don't like about yourself and attributing them to someone else
Please provide a link to the referenced definition, so we can eliminate the possibility of cherry picking or other unscrupulous tactics.
Perhaps then it is you who is projecting? perhaps you don't like thus personal trait you have of projecting so you attribute it to me, how ironic the true projector is the one who accuses others of projecting!
Pointing out a fact is hardly projecting.
This is why personal remarks, personal opinions about the character, mental state, beliefs, motives of one's opponent are frowned upon, it should have stopped in the school yard, it has no place in true respectful discourse.
You might find more comfort here if you quit taking facts as some kind of personal attack.
Is this truly how you like to spend time here?
When you offer me the courtesy of answering my questions, I'll be plenty happy to answer those questions you have of me.
Discovery is finding things that exist.
Invention is using things discovered.

Create that path and engineer a metamorphosis.

- William

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Re: Does consciousness exist?

Post #79

Post by Inquirer »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 4:37 pm
Inquirer wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:38 pm
JoeyKnothead wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:42 pm
Inquirer wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:13 pm If I made a mathematical argument, made some case that some theorem appears to be true because of X and Y, do you think there is a mathematician in the world who would counter argue by claiming the proponent is "projecting"?
You weren't making a mathematical argument.

This tactic is called deflection.
Here's a definition I just looked up for "projecting":
unconsciously taking unwanted emotions or traits you don't like about yourself and attributing them to someone else
Please provide a link to the referenced definition, so we can eliminate the possibility of cherry picking or other unscrupulous tactics.
Perhaps then it is you who is projecting? perhaps you don't like thus personal trait you have of projecting so you attribute it to me, how ironic the true projector is the one who accuses others of projecting!
Pointing out a fact is hardly projecting.
This is why personal remarks, personal opinions about the character, mental state, beliefs, motives of one's opponent are frowned upon, it should have stopped in the school yard, it has no place in true respectful discourse.
You might find more comfort here if you quit taking facts as some kind of personal attack.
Is this truly how you like to spend time here?
When you offer me the courtesy of answering my questions, I'll be plenty happy to answer those questions you have of me.
Yes, you already said that.

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Re: Does consciousness exist?

Post #80

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Inquirer wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 6:41 pm
JoeyKnothead wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 4:37 pm
Inquirer wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:38 pm
JoeyKnothead wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:42 pm
Inquirer wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:13 pm If I made a mathematical argument, made some case that some theorem appears to be true because of X and Y, do you think there is a mathematician in the world who would counter argue by claiming the proponent is "projecting"?
You weren't making a mathematical argument.

This tactic is called deflection.
Here's a definition I just looked up for "projecting":
unconsciously taking unwanted emotions or traits you don't like about yourself and attributing them to someone else
Please provide a link to the referenced definition, so we can eliminate the possibility of cherry picking or other unscrupulous tactics.
Perhaps then it is you who is projecting? perhaps you don't like thus personal trait you have of projecting so you attribute it to me, how ironic the true projector is the one who accuses others of projecting!
Pointing out a fact is hardly projecting.
This is why personal remarks, personal opinions about the character, mental state, beliefs, motives of one's opponent are frowned upon, it should have stopped in the school yard, it has no place in true respectful discourse.
You might find more comfort here if you quit taking facts as some kind of personal attack.
Is this truly how you like to spend time here?
When you offer me the courtesy of answering my questions, I'll be plenty happy to answer those questions you have of me.
Yes, you already said that.
Notice dear observer, there's no link to the definition, so we might determine the status of cherry picking.

One's left to wonder why such can't be provided.

It's my firm conviction that posters who have to rely on tricks, who refuse to answer simple, straightforward questions, well they shouldn't be trusted.
Discovery is finding things that exist.
Invention is using things discovered.

Create that path and engineer a metamorphosis.

- William

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