Are the Laws of Moses amazing legislation for that time?

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Are the Laws of Moses amazing legislation for that time?

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Post by oldbadger »

I propose that the laws of Moses (or the Old Testament if you prefer), all 613 of them were the most amazing piece of legislation for the purpose of producing a safe, secure, healthy, fast growing, cohesive and successful people...... back in those days.

I would like to show a law each day that might help to support my claim, and if any members might like to post up laws for discussion as well then that would be great. Many of those laws still exist in the local and national laws where I live.

My offer for today is clear guidance to 'keep these laws and prosper or ignore them and fail those who were there before.'

LEVITCUS {20:22} Ye shall therefore keep all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: that the land, whither I bring you to dwell therein, spue you not out. {20:23} And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them. {20:24} But I have said unto you, Ye shall inherit their land, and I will give it unto you to possess it, a land that floweth with milk and honey: I [am] the LORD your God, which have separated you from [other] people.
Last edited by oldbadger on Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:00 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The Laws of Moses, amazing legislation for that time!

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Post by Tcg »

[Replying to oldbadger in post #1]

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Re: The Laws of Moses, amazing legislation for that time!

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Post by oldbadger »

Tcg wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:01 am [Replying to oldbadger in post #1]

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OK...... I've made the Thread Title in to a question, just about. I hope that's alright.
I had trouble in deciding where to place such a thread as this and maybe it should live somewhere else, but I reckon it is likely to be debated.

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Re: The Laws of Moses, amazing legislation for that time!

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Post by Tcg »

oldbadger wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:40 am
Tcg wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:01 am [Replying to oldbadger in post #1]

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OK...... I've made the Thread Title in to a question, just about. I hope that's alright.
I had trouble in deciding where to place such a thread as this and maybe it should live somewhere else, but I reckon it is likely to be debated.
I suppose this translates to, "Are the Laws of Moses amazing legislation for that time?" Would that match what you want to debate?


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Re: The Laws of Moses, amazing legislation for that time!

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Post by oldbadger »

Tcg wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:47 am I suppose this translates to, "Are the Laws of Moses amazing legislation for that time?" Would that match what you want to debate?
Tcg
Yes, that would be much better. You're right. I'll adjust the title to that if I may. Thank you.

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Re: Are the Laws of Moses amazing legislation for that time?

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Post by oldbadger »

My offer for today:-
Deuteronomy {25:4} Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out [the corn.

A law written thousand's of year ago which demanded care for working beasts, to give them some nourishment and pleasure while in their labours. Our animal protection bodies would all applaud that law today, methinks.

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Re: Are the Laws of Moses amazing legislation for that time?

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Post by Miles »

oldbadger wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:36 am I propose that the laws of Moses (or the Old Testament if you prefer), all 613 of them were the most amazing piece of legislation for the purpose of producing a safe, secure, healthy, fast growing, cohesive and successful people...... back in those days.

I would like to show a law each day that might help to support my claim, and if any members might like to post up laws for discussion as well then that would be great. Many of those laws still exist in the local and national laws where I live.

Question: How do the following laws produce a safe, secure, healthy, fast growing, cohesive and successful people...... back in those days?


51. Not to bow down on smooth stone—Leviticus 26:1

64. Not to attempt to engage the dead in conversation—Deuteronomy 18:11

68. Men must not shave the hair off the sides of their head—Leviticus 19:27

71. Women must not wear men's clothing—Deuteronomy 22:5

72. Not to tattoo the skin—Leviticus 19:28

86. To circumcise all males on the eighth day after their birth—Leviticus 12:3

90. Not to walk more than 2000 cubits outside the city boundary on Shabbat—Exodus 16:29

95. Not to eat or drink on Yom Kippur—Leviticus 23:29

114. To eat Matzah on the first night of Passover—Exodus 12:18

116. To hear the Shofar on the first day of Tishrei (Rosh Hashanah)--Numbers 29:1

132. The rapist must marry the maiden (if she chooses)--Deuteronomy 22:29

157. Not to have homosexual sexual relations—Leviticus 18:22

185. Not to eat non-kosher maggots—Leviticus 11:44

187. Not to eat creatures that live in water other than fish—Leviticus 11:43

196. Not to cook meat and milk together—Exodus 34:26

204. To ritually slaughter an animal before eating it—Deuteronomy 12:21

217. The Nazir must let his hair grow—Numbers 6:5

224. He must not be under the same roof as a corpse—Numbers 6:6

236. Not to crossbreed animals—Leviticus 19:19

254. Not to improperly preface one tithe to the next, but separate them in their proper order—Exodus 22:28

278. To break the neck of the donkey if the owner does not intend to redeem it—Exodus 13:13

Etc.

Etc.
source


.

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Re: Are the Laws of Moses amazing legislation for that time?

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Post by oldbadger »

Miles wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:53 am
Question: How do the following laws produce a safe, secure, healthy, fast growing, cohesive and successful people...... back in those days?
51. Not to bow down on smooth stone—Leviticus 26:1

64. Not to attempt to engage the dead in conversation—Deuteronomy 18:11

68. Men must not shave the hair off the sides of their head—Leviticus 19:27

71. Women must not wear men's clothing—Deuteronomy 22:5

72. Not to tattoo the skin—Leviticus 19:28

86. To circumcise all males on the eighth day after their birth—Leviticus 12:3

90. Not to walk more than 2000 cubits outside the city boundary on Shabbat—Exodus 16:29

95. Not to eat or drink on Yom Kippur—Leviticus 23:29

114. To eat Matzah on the first night of Passover—Exodus 12:18

116. To hear the Shofar on the first day of Tishrei (Rosh Hashanah)--Numbers 29:1

132. The rapist must marry the maiden (if she chooses)--Deuteronomy 22:29

157. Not to have homosexual sexual relations—Leviticus 18:22

185. Not to eat non-kosher maggots—Leviticus 11:44

187. Not to eat creatures that live in water other than fish—Leviticus 11:43

196. Not to cook meat and milk together—Exodus 34:26

204. To ritually slaughter an animal before eating it—Deuteronomy 12:21

217. The Nazir must let his hair grow—Numbers 6:5

224. He must not be under the same roof as a corpse—Numbers 6:6

236. Not to crossbreed animals—Leviticus 19:19

254. Not to improperly preface one tithe to the next, but separate them in their proper order—Exodus 22:28

278. To break the neck of the donkey if the owner does not intend to redeem it—Exodus 13:13

Hello...!
So you thought I would spend my whole Saturday morning doing homework for you, eh?
All that you have shown to me is that you haven't given a moments thought before stuffing that lot in to your post. Honestly.

You need to offer one law each post and in that way my single hour on DC each morning can devoted more minutes to your answer, so what I'll do is close my eyes and waggle my cursor over the page, and where it stops then that will be the one that I choose to answer, but they all fit within my OP proposal, which you'll find out if you follow this thread long enough. You'll see answers to the others on different mornings over the next couple of weeks.

Here we go:-
187. Not to eat creatures that live in water other than fish—Leviticus 11:43

You've just copy/pasted that off the list without bothering to show Lev 11:43...... so I will.
Right...... you haven't even given the correct verse for the law which you have offered!
Leviticus {11:43} Ye shall not make yourselves abominable with any creeping thing that creepeth, neither shall ye make yourselves unclean with them, that ye should be defiled thereby. ......... so we know that you haven't actually read through Leviticus about all this.

What you should have shown for the above law (it might be repeated in Deuteronomy) is:-

Leviticus {11:9} These shall ye eat of all that [are] in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat. {11:10} And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which [is] in the waters, they [shall be] an abomination unto you: {11:11} They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination. {11:12} Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that [shall be] an abomination unto you.

So:- Your law as shown in your post is wrong, because many fish were forbidden, only scaled and finned fishes were safe to eat. Why? All smooth skinned fish are carrion and bottom feeding fish and they feed off dead material...now if you lived thousands of years ago would you take such chances, or just eat clean fish?

Shellfish:- If you enter 'Shellfish Poison Paralysis in to your search engine and then get reading, you will discover that this sickness is utterly deadly. There are other sicknesses which shellfish carry. Where I live all shellfish must either be cooked in boiling water for a certain time OR live in water under ultra-violet light for (3?) days if they are to be eaten live or cooked in lower heats.

So if this law had not existed for the Israelites:_
Their numbers would have been much reduced on occasions.
They would thus have not been so strong, so not so secure.
It's horrible to watch loved ones die through such sicknesses.

Please check through the rest vof your offerings, make sure you've sourced the correct verses and please show those verses. I don't want to read other interpretations and specially by 'experts' who don't seem to know what verse is where.

OK?

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Re: Are the Laws of Moses amazing legislation for that time?

Post #9

Post by oldbadger »

Miles wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:53 am
Question: How do the following laws produce a safe, secure, healthy, fast growing, cohesive and successful people...... back in those days?


51. Not to bow down on smooth stone—Leviticus 26:1

64. Not to attempt to engage the dead in conversation—Deuteronomy 18:11

68. Men must not shave the hair off the sides of their head—Leviticus 19:27

71. Women must not wear men's clothing—Deuteronomy 22:5

72. Not to tattoo the skin—Leviticus 19:28

86. To circumcise all males on the eighth day after their birth—Leviticus 12:3

90. Not to walk more than 2000 cubits outside the city boundary on Shabbat—Exodus 16:29

95. Not to eat or drink on Yom Kippur—Leviticus 23:29

114. To eat Matzah on the first night of Passover—Exodus 12:18

116. To hear the Shofar on the first day of Tishrei (Rosh Hashanah)--Numbers 29:1

132. The rapist must marry the maiden (if she chooses)--Deuteronomy 22:29

157. Not to have homosexual sexual relations—Leviticus 18:22

185. Not to eat non-kosher maggots—Leviticus 11:44

187. Not to eat creatures that live in water other than fish—Leviticus 11:43

196. Not to cook meat and milk together—Exodus 34:26

204. To ritually slaughter an animal before eating it—Deuteronomy 12:21

217. The Nazir must let his hair grow—Numbers 6:5

224. He must not be under the same roof as a corpse—Numbers 6:6

236. Not to crossbreed animals—Leviticus 19:19

254. Not to improperly preface one tithe to the next, but separate them in their proper order—Exodus 22:28

278. To break the neck of the donkey if the owner does not intend to redeem it—Exodus 13:13
OK, this is day two, answering your selection of laws shown above.
Again, I selected one of those at random and my law to answer this morning is:-

157. Not to have homosexual sexual relations—Leviticus 18:22

You wanted to know how this law could help to produce a more 'safe, secure, healthy, fast growing, cohesive and successful people'.

Since your experts showed the wrong law with wrong interpretation yesterday, let's look at Lev 18:22
Leviticus {18:22} Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination.

Wow! They got that one right. Firstly, let's get rid of 'abomination'.... there were nearly a score of abominations in these laws and they included cheating with measurements, keeping gold and silver from figures and images, etc......

Right, so let's see what would have happened to the Israelites is same-sex couples, or affairs, where allowed.

1. Closed couples was the absolute law to protect from any sicknesses being transmitted through the people, just like the shellfish laws....protecting from sickness.
2. Men and women were to join and make children.....hopefully lots of them, because then the nation would get bigger, stronger, safer, more secure, and newly wed grooms even got a year of work to enjoy their wife just for this purpose, I expect.
3. Men marrying men did NOT help to make the nation grow, men marrying women did.

So men had to marry women in closed relationships, this there was no place for any same sex relations.

If you had been the boss and relaxed this law then your people would not have been so safe, strong, secure, etc.

And I'm sure nobody is going to apply that law to this day and age because we don't need lots more people, we have much better medicine, etc.

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Re: Are the Laws of Moses amazing legislation for that time?

Post #10

Post by Miles »

oldbadger wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:20 am
Miles wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:53 am
Question: How do the following laws produce a safe, secure, healthy, fast growing, cohesive and successful people...... back in those days?


51. Not to bow down on smooth stone—Leviticus 26:1

64. Not to attempt to engage the dead in conversation—Deuteronomy 18:11

68. Men must not shave the hair off the sides of their head—Leviticus 19:27

71. Women must not wear men's clothing—Deuteronomy 22:5

72. Not to tattoo the skin—Leviticus 19:28

86. To circumcise all males on the eighth day after their birth—Leviticus 12:3

90. Not to walk more than 2000 cubits outside the city boundary on Shabbat—Exodus 16:29

95. Not to eat or drink on Yom Kippur—Leviticus 23:29

114. To eat Matzah on the first night of Passover—Exodus 12:18

116. To hear the Shofar on the first day of Tishrei (Rosh Hashanah)--Numbers 29:1

132. The rapist must marry the maiden (if she chooses)--Deuteronomy 22:29

157. Not to have homosexual sexual relations—Leviticus 18:22

185. Not to eat non-kosher maggots—Leviticus 11:44

187. Not to eat creatures that live in water other than fish—Leviticus 11:43

196. Not to cook meat and milk together—Exodus 34:26

204. To ritually slaughter an animal before eating it—Deuteronomy 12:21

217. The Nazir must let his hair grow—Numbers 6:5

224. He must not be under the same roof as a corpse—Numbers 6:6

236. Not to crossbreed animals—Leviticus 19:19

254. Not to improperly preface one tithe to the next, but separate them in their proper order—Exodus 22:28

278. To break the neck of the donkey if the owner does not intend to redeem it—Exodus 13:13
OK, this is day two, answering your selection of laws shown above.
Again, I selected one of those at random and my law to answer this morning is:-

157. Not to have homosexual sexual relations—Leviticus 18:22

You wanted to know how this law could help to produce a more 'safe, secure, healthy, fast growing, cohesive and successful people'.

Since your experts showed the wrong law with wrong interpretation yesterday, let's look at Lev 18:22
Leviticus {18:22} Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination.

Wow! They got that one right. Firstly, let's get rid of 'abomination'.... there were nearly a score of abominations in these laws and they included cheating with measurements, keeping gold and silver from figures and images, etc......
Sorry, but deleting a term because you don't like it simply doesn't work. How about we just delete "Virgin" from Matthew and Luke?


Right, so let's see what would have happened to the Israelites is same-sex couples, or affairs, where allowed.

1. Closed couples was the absolute law to protect from any sicknesses being transmitted through the people, just like the shellfish laws....protecting from sickness.
2. Men and women were to join and make children.....hopefully lots of them, because then the nation would get bigger, stronger, safer, more secure, and newly wed grooms even got a year of work to enjoy their wife just for this purpose, I expect.
3. Men marrying men did NOT help to make the nation grow, men marrying women did.

So men had to marry women in closed relationships, this there was no place for any same sex relations.

If you had been the boss and relaxed this law then your people would not have been so safe, strong, secure, etc.

And I'm sure nobody is going to apply that law to this day and age because we don't need lots more people, we have much better medicine, etc.
I was actually prepared to seriously answer you, but after seeing the three Reason you gave here,


Have a good day

.

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