Does consciousness exist?

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Wootah
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Does consciousness exist?

Post #1

Post by Wootah »

Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

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Re: Does consciousness exist?

Post #81

Post by Inquirer »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:36 am
Inquirer wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 6:41 pm
JoeyKnothead wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 4:37 pm
Inquirer wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:38 pm
JoeyKnothead wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:42 pm
Inquirer wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:13 pm If I made a mathematical argument, made some case that some theorem appears to be true because of X and Y, do you think there is a mathematician in the world who would counter argue by claiming the proponent is "projecting"?
You weren't making a mathematical argument.

This tactic is called deflection.
Here's a definition I just looked up for "projecting":
unconsciously taking unwanted emotions or traits you don't like about yourself and attributing them to someone else
Please provide a link to the referenced definition, so we can eliminate the possibility of cherry picking or other unscrupulous tactics.
Perhaps then it is you who is projecting? perhaps you don't like thus personal trait you have of projecting so you attribute it to me, how ironic the true projector is the one who accuses others of projecting!
Pointing out a fact is hardly projecting.
This is why personal remarks, personal opinions about the character, mental state, beliefs, motives of one's opponent are frowned upon, it should have stopped in the school yard, it has no place in true respectful discourse.
You might find more comfort here if you quit taking facts as some kind of personal attack.
Is this truly how you like to spend time here?
When you offer me the courtesy of answering my questions, I'll be plenty happy to answer those questions you have of me.
Yes, you already said that.
Notice dear observer, there's no link to the definition, so we might determine the status of cherry picking.

One's left to wonder why such can't be provided.

It's my firm conviction that posters who have to rely on tricks, who refuse to answer simple, straightforward questions, well they shouldn't be trusted.
You mean simple questions? like: Joey, what do you mean by "truth"? or do you regard that as a complicated question?

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Re: Does consciousness exist?

Post #82

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Inquirer wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:28 am You mean simple questions? like what do you mean by "truth"?
When you can find it within yourself to answer the questions I put to you, I'll be happy to answer what questions you put to me.

Don't be fooled here, dear observer, I have, on multiple occasions explained to this'n here I don't presuppose to know what form of his 'different forms of truth' applies to the following question...

Do you believe biblical tales of the resurrection of Jesus to be truth.

Instead, I'm being asked to define a word a simple Google/ dictionary lookup can provide. As well as a prior fussing on how I might -gasp- debate the answer.

It's my contention our respondent here might fear his answer to this question is apt to expose his faulty thinking, expose his argument/s to ridicule.

So we get this Foghorn Leghorn routine of, "Well I say there boy, by what, I say by what do you mean by 'truth'?"

I dare say, if there was any truth to be put to the question, this'n here'd be explaining all how much there is to it.

Instead, we get a poor man's rendition of a beloved cartoon character.
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Re: Does consciousness exist?

Post #83

Post by Inquirer »

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #82]

Please note dear readers how Joey asked this:

Do you think the resurrection of Christ described in the New Testament is literal truth?

to which I responded with:

As opposed to what other kind of truth?

Which Joey refused to answer simply repeating the question and that's all he's done since, for two weeks solid now! avoid clarifying what he means by "literal truth".

The reason is clear, to clarify can often expose logical weaknesses...murky arguments, imprecision, smoke and mirrors, I've seen it all before.

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Re: Does consciousness exist?

Post #84

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Inquirer wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:27 pm [Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #82]

Please note dear readers how Joey asked this:

Do you think the resurrection of Christ described in the New Testament is literal truth?

to which I responded with:

As opposed to what other kind of truth?

Which Joey refused to answer simply repeating the question and that's all he's done since, for two weeks solid now! avoid clarifying what he means by "literal truth".

The reason is clear, to clarify can often expose logical weaknesses...murky arguments, imprecision, smoke and mirrors, I've seen it all before.
Joey has responded, multiple times to the effect of...

Since I don't know what form of 'truth' might apply to an answer Inquirer refuses to provide, I leave that up to Inquirer, should he ever bother to answer what, I contend, is a straightforward question.

Here, perhaps the most fundamental question in all of Christianity, is a question so vexing, so perplexing, so confounding, the Christian trips over the word "truth".

Instead, the Christian seeks to bog down the question with this great big fuss about how we define a word.

And don't it beat all, the one word so problematic for the Christian, is the word truth.

Christian apologetics at its finest?

Or a ruse to avoid the implications of an answer the Christian is just too flummoxed to confront.
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Re: Does consciousness exist?

Post #85

Post by Inquirer »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:21 pm
Inquirer wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:27 pm [Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #82]

Please note dear readers how Joey asked this:

Do you think the resurrection of Christ described in the New Testament is literal truth?

to which I responded with:

As opposed to what other kind of truth?

Which Joey refused to answer simply repeating the question and that's all he's done since, for two weeks solid now! avoid clarifying what he means by "literal truth".

The reason is clear, to clarify can often expose logical weaknesses...murky arguments, imprecision, smoke and mirrors, I've seen it all before.
Joey has responded, multiple times to the effect of...

Since I don't know what form of 'truth' might apply to an answer Inquirer refuses to provide, I leave that up to Inquirer, should he ever bother to answer what, I contend, is a straightforward question.
Ladies and gentlemen, Joey's latest excuse is untrue. Joey, move your focus up a couple of inches, you asked about "literal truth" those are the words you used. All I can conclude is that you do not know what you meant, you chose the prefix "literal" yourself yet do not know what it means or why you used it.

Not understanding one's own questions is a rather flimsy position from which to debate.

Just like you Joey, I too don't understand your question, when I do I'll answer it.

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Re: Does consciousness exist?

Post #86

Post by William »

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #84]
Instead, the Christian seeks to bog down the question with this great big fuss about how we define a word.
It is an interesting ploy which has happened with me re both atheists and theists [Christians in this case].

It brings with it a feeling of a type of disappointment in that any further communication is curtailed. Being reduced to 'define' before commencing while dragging ones heals as if to show that one wishes to meander on the veg of definitions rather than getting into the meat of what has been defined...

From my position, while I understand Richard Dawkins being opposed to theistic jibba-jabba in the face of Scientific discovery, and he just wants folk to be awestruck about life without supporting any notions of being within a creation, [as per the thoughts of a past heretic-martyr-observer re the Christian God being just too small to fill the boots of "The Creator of The Universe"] - I accept the science and apply it to a far vaster entity which might be responsible for creating this [our] Universe.

In doing so - of course - one allows for any definition of such a being, to remain as of necessity - open ended in the sense that such cannot really be defined adequately while the science is still being done.

The best I can do with that, re my position is to make the definitions while also allowing for changes in the definitions to occur, as the information is made available.

When it comes to questions about such subjects as Resurrection Sky Gods [et "stuff like that"], I am forced to conclude that if such did/does happen, it would have to be explained as the handiwork of Extraterrestrial Science at best.

ETScience is [of course] -hovering near the boarders of "Supernatural Woo" - since it hasn't been established that ET even exists, let alone that ET has been interacting in the Human Storyline...I only 'call' it, because it is Scientifically possible, given our currently expanding understanding of the nature of this Universe...

For me - What Richard Dawkins is speaking of re the Awesomeness of Life, is simply magnified when a GOD-creator more appropriate to the situation is contemplated...


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Re: Does consciousness exist?

Post #87

Post by Inquirer »

William wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:20 pm [Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #84]
Instead, the Christian seeks to bog down the question with this great big fuss about how we define a word.
It is an interesting ploy which has happened with me re both atheists and theists [Christians in this case].

It brings with it a feeling of a type of disappointment in that any further communication is curtailed. Being reduced to 'define' before commencing while dragging ones heals as if to show that one wishes to meander on the veg of definitions rather than getting into the meat of what has been defined...

From my position, while I understand Richard Dawkins being opposed to theistic jibba-jabba in the face of Scientific discovery, and he just wants folk to be awestruck about life without supporting any notions of being within a creation, [as per the thoughts of a past heretic-martyr-observer re the Christian God being just too small to fill the boots of "The Creator of The Universe"] - I accept the science and apply it to a far vaster entity which might be responsible for creating this [our] Universe.

In doing so - of course - one allows for any definition of such a being, to remain as of necessity - open ended in the sense that such cannot really be defined adequately while the science is still being done.

The best I can do with that, re my position is to make the definitions while also allowing for changes in the definitions to occur, as the information is made available.

When it comes to questions about such subjects as Resurrection Sky Gods [et "stuff like that"], I am forced to conclude that if such did/does happen, it would have to be explained as the handiwork of Extraterrestrial Science at best.

ETScience is [of course] -hovering near the boarders of "Supernatural Woo" - since it hasn't been established that ET even exists, let alone that ET has been interacting in the Human Storyline...I only 'call' it, because it is Scientifically possible, given our currently expanding understanding of the nature of this Universe...

For me - What Richard Dawkins is speaking of re the Awesomeness of Life, is simply magnified when a GOD-creator more appropriate to the situation is contemplated...
To supply some context, I was asked:
Do you think the resurrection of Christ described in the New Testament is literal truth?
That's a question that I regard as ridiculously ambiguous, that's all. Unless I understand what is meant by "literal truth" how can I possibly answer? The resurrection is described or mentioned in several ancient documents written in several ancient languages. Those documents have been translated into at least seven hundred other languages over a period of several centuries reflecting different cultural contexts.

Is he concerned about the accuracy of the translation itself or the story in general? if its in general why use "literal"? Do we each understand the same thing by "described in the New Testament"? Who's description?

So what translation and what book and what verses was Joey referring to? I even asked for examples of what he regards a literally true descriptions of historic events to give me some clarity but no, no examples were given, in short every attempt to get some level of clarity have been brushed aside - why?

Well, that's it, he refuses to answer, explain. clarify or exemplify and here we are two weeks later.

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Re: Does consciousness exist?

Post #88

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Inquirer wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:33 pm
To supply some context, I was asked:
Do you think the resurrection of Christ described in the New Testament is literal truth?
That's a question that I regard as ridiculously ambiguous, that's all. Unless I understand what is meant by "literal truth" how can I possibly answer? The resurrection is described or mentioned in several ancient documents written in several ancient languages. Those documents have been translated into at least seven hundred other languages over a period of several centuries reflecting different cultural contexts.

Is he concerned about the accuracy of the translation itself or the story in general? if its in general why use "literal"? Do we each understand the same thing by "described in the New Testament"? Who's description?

So what translation and what book and what verses was Joey referring to? that's it, he refuses to answer and here we are two weeks later.

I even asked for examples of what he regards a literally true descriptions of historic events to give me some clarity but no, no examples were given, in short every attempt to get some level of clarity have been brushed aside - why?
Pick one or more.

It's your answer, I have no way of knowing which apply.
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Re: Does consciousness exist?

Post #89

Post by Inquirer »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:42 pm
Inquirer wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:33 pm
To supply some context, I was asked:
Do you think the resurrection of Christ described in the New Testament is literal truth?
That's a question that I regard as ridiculously ambiguous, that's all. Unless I understand what is meant by "literal truth" how can I possibly answer? The resurrection is described or mentioned in several ancient documents written in several ancient languages. Those documents have been translated into at least seven hundred other languages over a period of several centuries reflecting different cultural contexts.

Is he concerned about the accuracy of the translation itself or the story in general? if its in general why use "literal"? Do we each understand the same thing by "described in the New Testament"? Who's description?

So what translation and what book and what verses was Joey referring to? that's it, he refuses to answer and here we are two weeks later.

I even asked for examples of what he regards a literally true descriptions of historic events to give me some clarity but no, no examples were given, in short every attempt to get some level of clarity have been brushed aside - why?
Pick one or more.

It's your answer, I have no way of knowing which apply.
Sorry but no. This is an important academic subject and should be treated as such, if you can't be bothered to make an effort to be clear then I won't spend time discussing it.

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Re: Does consciousness exist?

Post #90

Post by William »

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #88]
Do you think the resurrection of Christ described in the New Testament is literal truth?
The gist of the question is understandable enough. I think what is being asked is "Do you think the resurrection of Christ described in the New Testament as literal truth?"

Perhaps the simple solution of replacing an 'i' with an 'a' might bring clarity, but getting back to the gist, it is hair-splitting at best.

I think that AS literal truth [per biblical description] my "explanation" [re ET] is adequate if I were to answer "Yes I do think the resurrection of Christ described in the New Testament could be taken as a literal thing "IF ETScience was involved"

Otherwise "Shrug" - but that is my answer to your question, and other answers will vary depending upon what position folks are coming from/holding...which {I am supposing] is why the question was asked - to see where the person being asked it, is coming from...

Mind Game much?

:D

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