Judge Finds Probable Cause Evidence of Crime at Trump's Home

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Judge Finds Probable Cause Evidence of Crime at Trump's Home

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Post by Diogenes »

The fact a judge issued a warrant to search Trump's residence, 'Mar-a-Lago' means an independent judge (possibly a Trump appointee) found there was probable cause to believe evidence of a crime or crimes would be found there. This is unprecedented in U. S. history, a search warrant to search the residence of a former President.
Questions for debate:
Is Trump the worst President in history?
Or just the most criminal since Nixon?
If Trump is convicted of a felony, what percentage of his supporters (if any) will change their opinion of Trump?
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Re: Judge Finds Probable Cause Evidence of Crime at Trump's Home

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Post by Diogenes »

The search warrant executed today on Trump's home to look for evidence of mishandling of presidential documents reminds me of Al Capone's conviction for tax violations.
Image
Like Capone, Trump ran a criminal organization for years before, during and after his four years as President of the U. S.
But what may finally bring him down is his routine criminality and a comparatively minor series of crimes, relative to his incitement of insurrection and generally corrupt conduct.
https://themobmuseum.org/.../capone-tax ... -trial.../
https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/08/politics ... index.html
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Re: Judge Finds Probable Cause Evidence of Crime at Trump's Home

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Post by Miles »

Diogenes wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:12 pm The fact a judge issued a warrant to search Trump's residence, 'Mar-a-Lago' means an independent judge (possibly a Trump appointee) found there was probable cause to believe evidence of a crime or crimes would be found there. This is unprecedented in U. S. history, a search warrant to search the residence of a former President.
Questions for debate:
Is Trump the worst President in history?
Yes---No debate

Or just the most criminal since Nixon?
Trump was that before he even took office.

If Trump is convicted of a felony, what percentage of his supporters (if any) will change their opinion of Trump?
0.00%


"Raids" like today's gives we warm shivers of anticipation.


.

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Re: Judge Finds Probable Cause Evidence of Crime at Trump's Home

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Frankly the United States is done for. The fact that an abject imbecile, pathological liar, misogynist and bully like Trump actually has more than a tiny number of fanatical supporters is the most worrying thing here. There are people, lots of people, still waving flags claiming "Trump Won" this indicates to me that the country is doomed. The fact that the Republicans by and large still cower in his shadow and defend him is just mind blowing.

As a society the US is all but over, we're going to see rising levels of violence, weakening of respected institutions, decline in living standards and wealth, the American dream is dead.

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Re: Judge Finds Probable Cause Evidence of Crime at Trump's Home

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Post by Diogenes »

Inquirer wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:55 pm Frankly the United States is done for. The fact that an abject imbecile, pathological liar, misogynist and bully like Trump actually has more than a tiny number of fanatical supporters is the most worrying thing here. There are people, lots of people, still waving flags claiming "Trump Won" this indicates to me that the country is doomed. The fact that the Republicans by and large still cower in his shadow and defend him is just mind blowing.

As a society the US is all but over, we're going to see rising levels of violence, weakening of respected institutions, decline in living standards and wealth, the American dream is dead.
:D
You are correct in one thing (finally :) ) when you write:
The fact that an abject imbecile, pathological liar, misogynist and bully like Trump actually has more than a tiny number of fanatical supporters is the most worrying thing here.
Your description of Trump is spot on, and yes, it is discouraging that more than a handful of ninnies could be taken in by him. However, your forecast of 'doom' is overdrawn. Half of GOP voters reject him.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/12/us/p ... -2024.html
The vast majority of Americans in general disapprove of him and a majority want him prosecuted for his crimes. It's sad that it isn't everyone, but 'doom' is an extreme prediction.

We survived 'W' Bush, Richard Nixon, Warren Harding, and James Buchanan. The Brits survived the Earl of Bute, Neville Chamberlain, and Boris Johnson. Trump is likely worse than all of them put together, but we will survive. The sad thing about democracy is the uneducated get to vote, but what is the alternative?
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Re: Judge Finds Probable Cause Evidence of Crime at Trump's Home

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Post by Jose Fly »

Being apathetic is great....or not. I don't really care.

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Re: Judge Finds Probable Cause Evidence of Crime at Trump's Home

Post #7

Post by Diogenes »

Perhaps most disturbing is the MAGA reaction to the search warrant, calling for assassinations of members of Congress, Judges, and the FBI, perhaps forgetting that the FBI director, Christopher Wray, was appointed by Donald Trump.
Particularly frightening is when 'Christian' leaders make these wild claims.Th
Dinesh D’Souza, a right-wing provocateur who received a pardon from Trump for campaign-finance violations, said, “The FBI, an organization set up to fight organized crime, has become the most powerful organized crime syndicate in the world. We now need to carry the fight against organized crime to its logical conclusion: Shut down the FBI and prosecute this gang of dangerous criminals.”
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... on/671104/

D'Souza is a close associate of William Lane Craig. Christians should be denouncing this sort of thing, not encouraging it. This nuttiness has infected Congress as well.
Defund Law Enforcement After Feds Raid Mar-a-Lago
Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene whined that defunding the Department of Justice would “completely cut out of their budget the ability to persecute Republicans”

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... i-1394486/

The reckless comments of religious and political leaders have consequences. All the details are not in yet, but this may be yet another example of how easy it is to rile up the MAGA base with violent results.

Man armed with AR-15 style rifle shoots into FBI Cincinnati building with a nail gun and flees leading to interstate standoff
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ar ... -rcna42669
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Re: Judge Finds Probable Cause Evidence of Crime at Trump's Home

Post #8

Post by Jose Fly »

Diogenes wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 12:50 pm Christians should be denouncing this sort of thing, not encouraging it.
When evangelicals put their virtually full support behind Trump, even after all the things that came out about him during the 2016 campaign (e.g., the Access Hollywood tape), to me that signified them abandoning any pretense of caring about the words of Jesus, values, family, scripture, morality, etc.

When I found out my mom (very much an evangelical Christian) was a Trump supporter, I had to ask her how she could do that. Sure, I can understand her voting for him, being a lifelong Republican and all, but actively supporting him? How could she do that, given how he's basically everything she raised me not to be.

Her answer was quite revealing. It was about gays and abortion, and how he promised to appoint judges that would overturn Roe and roll back LGBTQ rights. That's literally all she cared about....nothing else mattered.

That forever changed how I see my mom.
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Re: Judge Finds Probable Cause Evidence of Crime at Trump's Home

Post #9

Post by Jose Fly »

https://www.theshovel.com.au/2022/08/10 ... umps-home/
We are certainly no fans of Donald Trump – let’s make that clear from the outset. But yesterday’s raid by the FBI on the home of a former president sets a dangerous precedent.

A precedent which now means that anyone who evades taxes, attempts to undermine an election, sexually assaults women, manipulates the value of their assets, uses state resources to enrich themselves or aids and abets the overthrow of a democratically elected government will be subject to investigation.
Is that the world we want to live in? Where anyone accused of insurrection can be subject to questioning from law enforcement officers?

It’s a slippery slope. Before we know it, regular citizens accused of defrauding the government, concealing evidence, manipulating financial documents, tampering with witnesses or perverting the course of justice will also be held to account.

Or to put it another way, if we simply shrug our shoulders and fail to question the actions of the FBI, soon any old Joe Citizen who is suspected of ripping classified government documents into small pieces and flushing them down the toilet will be obliged to answer to law enforcement, as well as their plumber.

If we don’t ask the hard questions about the potential motives of the FBI now, soon any one of us who buries our ex-wife in a small grave at the side of their golf course in order to gain a tax concession will be treated with suspicion.

As Trump supporters put it so clearly yesterday, if this can happen to a President, it could happen to anyone who has committed insurrection, assault or fraud. That’s a chilling thought.

We are on new ground here. As Donald Trump himself made clear, this is the first time a former president’s home has been raided. Proof, if ever we needed it, that the FBI shamefully only targets people who it considers to have committed a crime. Who gave FBI director Chris Wray that authority?

As we made clear earlier, we’re certainly not Trump supporters. But in today’s partisan world, it would be easy to fall into the trap of cheering on the FBI’s actions, without taking a step back to look at the bigger picture. If Trump goes to jail, it opens the door for every lying, corrupt, perverted piece of shit to go to jail too. Is that what we want?
H/T Digby's blog
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Re: Judge Finds Probable Cause Evidence of Crime at Trump's Home

Post #10

Post by The Barbarian »

:)

The funny thing is, this only slightly exaggerates what republicans are saying, "If an ex-president is accountable for crimes, anyone can be!"

Well, yes. That's the idea.

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