Who was the author of Matthew?

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jd01
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Who was the author of Matthew?

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Who was the author of Matthew? There is almost no information on him.
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Re: Who was the author of Matthew?

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neverknewyou wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:50 pm [Replying to jd01 in post #15]

Those are well known traditional views that have no basis in fact. None of the gospel writers are known. Everything that is known about a living Jesus comes from Mark and not a single word of Marks gospel can be verified, and all of the subsequent gospel writers, canonical and non-canonical, are all reliant on Mark therefore they otherwise knew nothing about a living Jesus.
Of course they are based on facts. True, we don't know who Matthew was, but we have testimony passed on by eye-witnesses about the author of Mark and how it the Gospel was written. John self identifies himself in the Gospel. Also John does not use Mark as a source; he reports his own story of being with Jesus. It's true you can never be 100% sure of anything; if you choose that criterium then you really can get nowhere in this case, but there are ways of knowing for pretty sure. And this is the case of the authors of the gospels.
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Re: Who was the author of Matthew?

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Post by Diagoras »

neverknewyou wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:03 am In those days preachers had to impress their congregations by demonstrating their divine connection, it was their divine connection that granted them (apostles) authority, that's why Paul brags about going to the third heaven to get special information and his visions demonstrated his direct communication with Christ
That’s 2 Corinthians 12, correct?

It seems that claiming to have have ‘divine connections’ through visions would have been a reasonably safe way to gain influence. After all, it’s unprovable.

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Re: Who was the author of Matthew?

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Diagoras wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:00 pm
neverknewyou wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:03 am In those days preachers had to impress their congregations by demonstrating their divine connection, it was their divine connection that granted them (apostles) authority, that's why Paul brags about going to the third heaven to get special information and his visions demonstrated his direct communication with Christ
That’s 2 Corinthians 12, correct?

It seems that claiming to have have ‘divine connections’ through visions would have been a reasonably safe way to gain influence. After all, it’s unprovable.
Exactly, the best kind.

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Re: Who was the author of Matthew?

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jd01 wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:55 pm John self identifies himself in the Gospel.
They only Johns I can find in mentioned in gospel John are John the Baptist and John the father of Simon Peter. Where is the self-identification you are referring to?


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Re: Who was the author of Matthew?

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Post by Tcg »

jd01 wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:55 pm
Of course they are based on facts.

It's true you can never be 100% sure of anything;
How can you make the earlier claim given the admission of uncertainty that follows?


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Re: Who was the author of Matthew?

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Post by neverknewyou »

Tcg wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:50 pm
jd01 wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:55 pm John self identifies himself in the Gospel.
They only Johns I can find in mentioned in gospel John are John the Baptist and John the father of Simon Peter. Where is the self-identification you are referring to?


Tcg
You won't find anything, the kicker is that gJohn writes the disciple's names out of the story, even his own. Who says the gospel authors were void of humour?

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Re: Who was the author of Matthew?

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Post by TRANSPONDER »

I've always wondered why Levi (the taxman in Capernaum) became Matthew in Matthew's Gospel. It is a bit like the 'Other' disciple looking a bit like John (son of Zebedee) even though when originally they Join jesus it's Andrew and Peter names with the third disciple not named. James and John (sons of Zebedee) come as a second unit after Andrew and Peter (brothers). But it's too easy to try to tease truth -clues out of what could be scenarios made up out of thin air. John's unnamed disciple also looks rather like the remote view observer of some storytelling. Though he does get a definite action in looking in the tomb, but again more secondary confirmation of what Simon had seen. But all very arguable and easy to dismiss by the "It's all true" Bible believers.

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Re: Who was the author of Matthew?

Post #28

Post by jd01 »

Tcg wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:50 pm
jd01 wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:55 pm John self identifies himself in the Gospel.
They only Johns I can find in mentioned in gospel John are John the Baptist and John the father of Simon Peter. Where is the self-identification you are referring to?
Tcg
The author self-identifies himself as the Beloved Disciple. There is a universal agreement in the Early Church that a certain John wrote the Gospel. Most later assumed it was John the Disciple but Papias is careful to identify John, the Elder and internal evidence suggests he was the author. I go over the details in my book.
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Re: Who was the author of Matthew?

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Post by Tcg »

jd01 wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:25 pm
Tcg wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:50 pm
jd01 wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:55 pm John self identifies himself in the Gospel.
They only Johns I can find in mentioned in gospel John are John the Baptist and John the father of Simon Peter. Where is the self-identification you are referring to?
Tcg
The author self-identifies himself as the Beloved Disciple. There is a universal agreement in the Early Church that a certain John wrote the Gospel. Most later assumed it was John the Disciple but Papias is careful to identify John, the Elder and internal evidence suggests he was the author. I go over the details in my book.
A good argument has been made that the Beloved Disciple was Lazarus. Yes, the author identifies himself as the Beloved Disciple. He does NOT self-identify as John. To claim to know what the Early Church universally agreed on is quite a stretch. It wouldn't be possible to even know everyone who was a part of the Early Church much less what they did or did not agree on.


Tcg
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Re: Who was the author of Matthew?

Post #30

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
Tcg wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:15 pm
jd01 wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:25 pm
Tcg wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:50 pm
jd01 wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:55 pm John self identifies himself in the Gospel.
They only Johns I can find in mentioned in gospel John are John the Baptist and John the father of Simon Peter. Where is the self-identification you are referring to?
Tcg
The author self-identifies himself as the Beloved Disciple. There is a universal agreement in the Early Church that a certain John wrote the Gospel. Most later assumed it was John the Disciple but Papias is careful to identify John, the Elder and internal evidence suggests he was the author. I go over the details in my book.
A good argument has been made that the Beloved Disciple was Lazarus. Yes, the author identifies himself as the Beloved Disciple. He does NOT self-identify as John. To claim to know what the Early Church universally agreed on is quite a stretch. It wouldn't be possible to even know everyone who was a part of the Early Church much less what they did or did not agree on.


Tcg
Yes, and (as my Lord showed me) Lazarus is indeed identified in that gospel as the one He loved. This makes the author of "John" an eyewitness, even if most won't accept that. Just not the eyewitness that has been traditionally taught.

Luke is not an eyewitness though (as has been said in this thread). Nor does he ever claim to be an eyewitness. He claims to have investigated and then written an orderly report from what others who were eyewitnesses had handed down to them.

If Mark is a companion (or son... 1Peter 5:13) of Peter, then Mark probably got most of his information from Peter; though if Mark is Peter's actual son, he may have witnessed a few things himself.

Matthew is the one I am not sure about. I have that one in a "probably Levi" category.



Peace again to you!
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

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