JESUS IS NOT GOD

[onewithhim]

I would very much like to get opinions on this subject. I'll provide several verses from the King James Version of the Bible, and I ask you to give me feed-back.


Jesus' words:

1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)

2) "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)

3) "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42)

He replied, after the Pharisees accused him of making himself God:
4) "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON of God?" (John 10:36)

5) "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say....Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50)

6) To his Father in prayer: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God , and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

7) "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)

To John in the Revelation:
8) "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God..." (Revelation 3:12)



Do these quotations show that Jesus was NOT God?

Do YOU believe that he claimed to be God?

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #469]

I stand by everything I said, and I'll leave it to the folks who read it to decide for themselves what makes sense to them. You haven't gotten the point of anything I posted. You quote certain Bibles, yet ignore what I posted about OTHER Bible versions. What harmonizes with all other Scriptures?

We must agree to disagree.

Not a problem. That leaves you believing that a man which did not exist at the time creating everything which exists.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #469]

I stand by everything I said, and I'll leave it to the folks who read it to decide for themselves what makes sense to them. You haven't gotten the point of anything I posted. You quote certain Bibles, yet ignore what I posted about OTHER Bible versions. What harmonizes with all other Scriptures?

We must agree to disagree.

Not a problem. That leaves you believing that a man which did not exist at the time creating everything which exists.

What are you talking about? Are you saying that Jesus didn't exist before he was born on Earth? The Bible says that he existed long before Earth was even formed. He said about himself: In prayer to his Father: "So now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was." (John 17:5) Moreover, "no man has ascended into heaven but the one who descended from heaven, the Son of man." (John 3:13)

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #469]

I stand by everything I said, and I'll leave it to the folks who read it to decide for themselves what makes sense to them. You haven't gotten the point of anything I posted. You quote certain Bibles, yet ignore what I posted about OTHER Bible versions. What harmonizes with all other Scriptures?

We must agree to disagree.

Not a problem. That leaves you believing that a man which did not exist at the time creating everything which exists.

What are you talking about? Are you saying that Jesus didn't exist before he was born on Earth? The Bible says that he existed long before Earth was even formed. He said about himself: In prayer to his Father: "So now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was." (John 17:5) Moreover, "no man has ascended into heaven but the one who descended from heaven, the Son of man." (John 3:13)

Jesus is recalling things prior to His becoming flesh as a man. The Word, from which He was "made flesh" lived from the beginning.

But Jesus' beginning as a man was 2022 years ago, and He lived as a man for about 33 years. Apparently He can recall memories about being the Word, but He has a different body type -- natural verses spiritual.

There is no longer any reason for Him to be a man.

Also, Christ cannot enter the Kingdom of God as flesh and blood:

And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God;...

[tam]

Peace to you,

Christ is the Word of God. Right?

Same person, different body. Right?

If you agree with the above, then can you elaborate a little on what you see as the problem, myth-one?

Thank you!

[myth-one.com]

Peace to you,

Christ is the Word of God. Right?

Same person, different body. Right?

If you agree with the above, then can you elaborate a little on what you see as the problem, myth-one?

Thank you!

Definition of person: a human being regarded as an individual.

Is God a person?

Jesus was a person.

The problem is that God is not equipped to perform the work which Jesus was sent to accomplish.

Thus, Jesus had to be made as a person.

If Jesus was God, then He could not perform the work which He assigned Himself to accomplish.

There are things which God cannot do.

And if Jesus was God, then He could not have died.

And if Jesus was God, then He would not be a possible beneficiary under the Old Testament Covenant between Himself and the Nation of Israel.

[tam]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Christ is the Word of God. Right?

Same person, different body. Right?

If you agree with the above, then can you elaborate a little on what you see as the problem, myth-one?

Thank you!

Definition of person: a human being regarded as an individual.

Is God a person?

Jesus was a person.

The problem is that God is not equipped to perform the work which Jesus was sent to accomplish.

Thus, Jesus had to be a person.

If Jesus was God, then He could not perform the work which He assigned Himself to accomplish.

There are things which God cannot do.

And if Jesus was God, then He could not have died.

And if Jesus was God, then He would not be a possible beneficiary under the Old Testament Covenant between Himself and the Nation of Israel.

OWH is not suggesting that [Jesus] is God.

Are you suggesting that the Word (who is Christ) is God (YHWH)? I went back and read and it seems as if you might be suggesting that?

I'm just trying to understand why you would be objecting to the general statement that God made everything through Christ. I am sorry if I have misunderstood your position, if that was not what you were objecting TO. But God did make all things THROUGH Christ:

The author here is speaking about Christ:

On many past occasions and in many different ways, God spoke to our fathers through the prophets. 2But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe Hebrews 1:2

**
The author here is CLEARLY speaking about Christ as being the one THROUGH whom all things came, even using the name [Jesus]:

yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, [Jesus] Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. 1 Corinth 8:6

**
The author here is also speaking about Christ (in the world), as being the one through whom the world was made:

He was in the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him. John 1:10



Peace to you!

[myth-one.com]

OWH is not suggesting that [Jesus] is God.

Are you suggesting that the Word (who is Christ) is God (YHWH)?

No, but you just did.

The Bible states that the Word ( who is not the same as Christ ) is God, and the Word created everything -- not Jesus Christ.

<===================================>

The re-creation of the earth begun in Genesis 1:3 required six days.

On which of those days did the man Jesus Christ began creating any thing?

Thanks

[tam]

Peace to you,

OWH is not suggesting that [Jesus] is God.

Are you suggesting that the Word (who is Christ) is God (YHWH)?

No,

Are you suggesting that the Word is God, and is not Christ?

Seems that you are suggesting the Word is a different being than the Christ. But that is not correct. Christ (Jaheshua) is the Word of God.

Let's look at John 1:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning.

So the Word is WITH God in the beginning. (I know the translation also states the Word 'was' God, but that is a translation issue... if He is with God in the beginning; He cannot then also BE that same God.)

3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

So through the Word (who was with God in the beginning), all things were made (that have been made). Compare that with the verses supplied above (Hebrews 1:2; 1Corinth 8:6).

If God made the universe through His Son (Hebrews 1:2), but in fact all things were made through the Word (John 1:10; 1Corinth 8:6)... then the Word = the Son = Christ.

4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

The "him" in the above verse is Christ. Yes?

So compare that with the rest of these, where Christ is speaking about Himself:

For as the Father has life in Himself, so also He has granted the Son to have life in Himself. John 5:26

"I am the Way, the Truth, and the LIFE." John 14:6

[Jesus] said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in Me will live, even though he dies. John 11:25

Once again, [Jesus] spoke to the people and said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows Me will never walk in the darkness, but will have the light of life." John 8:12

"... While I am in the world, I am the light of the world." John 9:5

Christ is the Word, the Son, the Life, the Light.

6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

John (the Baptist) came as a witness to testify to Christ... yes? Therefore, Christ is that Light to whom John came to testify.

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.

So again, the Light here is Christ. He came into the world, and though the world was made through Him (Hebrews 1:2), the world did not recognize Him.

11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God. 14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

So the Word (who became flesh and made his dwelling among us) is the Son, who came from the Father. Christ is the Son, yes?

This is all the same being. Different form/body, sure, but the same being.



**

The Bible states that the Word ( who is not the same as Christ ) is God, and the Word created everything -- not Jesus Christ.

Don't the verses supplied above from Hebrews, Corinthians, and John state that Christ is the One through whom God made the universe, through whom ALL THINGS came, through whom all things were made that have been made?

The re-creation of the earth begun in Genesis 1:3 required six days.

On which of those days did the man Jesus Christ began creating any thing?

The Word/Christ (the Chosen One of JAH) did not become flesh and walk among us as a man until two thousand years ago. But He existed long before that with His Father the firstborn over all creation. His God and Father (YHWH) created all things THROUGH Him. He does refer to His God and Father, even after His death and resurrection, and ascension (John 20:17, Rev 19:13).

Christ (Jaheshua) did not cease to exist (indeed, He speaks as Himself, with His name in the opening and ending of the revelation given to John, as well to Paul on the road to Damascus). We also will not cease to exist. We will just be changed (in a twinkling) to a new body. But the person we are (on the inside) will still be us.

Thanks

You're welcome of course, and thank you for answering my questions as well!




Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[myth-one.com]

Seems that you are suggesting the Word is a different being than the Christ.

Here is what the Bible states:

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us... (John 1:14)

Flesh means Jesus was made as a man. Here is further confirmation:

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. (Hebrews 2:9)

Jesus Christ was made to be "a little lower than the angels," exactly as man was created!

What is man, that thou art mindful of him? ...For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, (Psalm 8:4-5)

Both Jesus Christ and man were made "a little lower than the angels." However, we are given the one, and only one, reason that the Word was made lower than the angels for His thirty-three years on earth. The Word could not die as a spirit! He was made lower than the angels so that he could suffer death! That was the only change required for Him to become a human being! That is, His spiritual body could not die as it is immortal. He had to become a physical human body so that He could suffer death.

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; (1 Timothy 2:5)

So Jesus was a man, and men have starting points and ending points. So Jesus did not exist from the beginning. The Word existed from the beginning, but not the Word made flesh who was Jesus Christ. They are different beings and no human can understand how these changes between body types could occur.

Let's drop it here. In summary: The Word is an immortal God, Jesus was the Word made flesh as the mortal man Jesus Christ, both existed at the same time, and the Word created everything -- not Jesus.

All of this was required as part of God's plan to fix the "fault" in the Old Testament Covenant between God and the Nation of Israel. Note that the Word created that covenant because He created everything. Thus He was assigned by God the Father to fix the fault in the covenant.

Jesus was born as a Jewish man who was thus a party to that covenant as a possible beneficiary.

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #479]

Jesus was born as a Jewish man who was thus a party to that covenant as a possible beneficiary.

And where is He now?