JESUS IS NOT GOD

[onewithhim]

I would very much like to get opinions on this subject. I'll provide several verses from the King James Version of the Bible, and I ask you to give me feed-back.


Jesus' words:

1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)

2) "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)

3) "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42)

He replied, after the Pharisees accused him of making himself God:
4) "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON of God?" (John 10:36)

5) "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say....Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50)

6) To his Father in prayer: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God , and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

7) "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)

To John in the Revelation:
8) "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God..." (Revelation 3:12)



Do these quotations show that Jesus was NOT God?

Do YOU believe that he claimed to be God?

[myth-one.com]

Can you provide a scripture that states Christ does not accept His inheritance?

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)

That verse does not state that Christ does not accept His inheritance.

What is the derivation of the eternal life God offers as a gift to believers through Jesus Christ?

Where did it come from?

[tam]

Peace to you,

Can you provide a scripture that states Christ does not accept His inheritance?

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)

That verse does not state that Christ does not accept His inheritance.

What is the derivation of the eternal life God offers as a gift to believers through Jesus Christ?

Where did it come from?

From God through Christ.

As Christ Himself said:

Truly, truly, I tell you, the hour is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26For as the Father has life in Himself, so also He has granted the Son to have life in Himself. John 5:26

For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. John 5:21

See also John 4:10-15.


Peace again to you!

[myth-one.com]

Peace to you,

Can you provide a scripture that states Christ does not accept His inheritance?

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)

That verse does not state that Christ does not accept His inheritance.

What is the derivation of the eternal life God offers as a gift to believers through Jesus Christ?

Where did it come from?

From God through Christ.

Yes, I agree.

And Christ was a Jewish man living under the Old Testament Covenant between God and the Nation of Israel.

Under that covenant, the only way any man could become an heir to everlasting life was to never commit a sin, because the wages of sin was death.

Jesus Christ succeeded in living a sinless human life under that covenant and became the only human to ever qualify as an heir to everlasting life under that covenant.

That is where the eternal life offered as the gift of God in Romans 6:23 came from!

God then allowed Jesus to offer His inheritance of everlasting life as a free gift to those humans who believe in Him as their Savior under the New Testament Covenant:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #493]

God then allowed Jesus to offer His inheritance of everlasting life as a free gift to those humans who believe in Him as their Savior under the New Testament Covenant:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

You're adding your own spin, myth-one, and you appear to be ignoring the fact that Christ has life in HIMSELF, to give to whomever He chooses, just as the Father has life in HIMSELF. Christ does not have to give up his own eternal life in order to give life to others, just as the Father does not have to give up HIS eternal life in order to give life to His Son (and through His Son, to others).

But I am not sure what else to say other than what has been said in previous posts. You do seem to be ignoring a lot of the verses supplied (such as those which show that Christ does indeed exist, even refers to Himself by His name after His death, resurrection, and ascension; and that God made the universe THROUGH Christ - meaning Christ HAD to have been there in the beginning, with His Father). I can only refer back to those... and of course to Christ, to turn and listen to Him to know what is true. He is the Truth, after all.



Peace again to you.

[Diogenes]

Virtually every Biblical reference suggesting Jesus is God, that comes from the Gospels is from John. The synoptic Gospels, particularly the more factual and historic minded Gospels, Mark and Matthew do not make such claims. Jesus himself did not make such a claim according to the synoptic Gospels.

John is an outlier. The anonymous Gospel of John is more of a sermon and polemic. It does not even pretend to be a historical account. I have referenced this many times, but until an apologist actually reads and takes on the gospels and arguments Thomas Sheehan advanced in The First Coming, arguments to the contrary dodge the Biblical evidence.
https://infidels.org/library/modern/tho ... rstcoming/

I challenge advocates of the blasphemy of turning a man into God to actually read and debate Sheehan's account.

In the meantime:
Matthew 24:36
No one knows about that day or hour, not even the Son, but the Father only.
Here Jesus makes a distinction between what he knows and what the Father knows.

Matthew 26:39
My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me, yet not as I will, but as Thou will.
Jesus’ will is likewise autonomous from God’s Will. Jesus is seeking acquiescence to God’s will.

Mark 10:18
Why do you call me good? No one is good, except God alone.
Here Jesus emphatically makes a distinction between himself and God.

Matthew 6:9
Our Father, which art in Heaven.
He didn’t pray, Our Father, which art standing right here!”
Matthew 27:46
My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Inconceivable if he is God the Creator.

James 1:13: When tempted, no one should say, God is tempting me. For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt.
Jesus was tempted in every way, but God cannot be tempted. This is why Jesus said, “don’t call me good, none are good, only God.”

[myth-one.com]

You're adding your own spin, myth-one, and you appear to be ignoring the fact that Christ has life in HIMSELF, to give to whomever He chooses, just as the Father has life in HIMSELF. Christ does not have to give up his own eternal life in order to give life to others, just as the Father does not have to give up HIS eternal life in order to give life to His Son (and through His Son, to others).

Christ never had everlasting life as you claim. The Bible states that He was created for the suffering of death:

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. (Hebrews 2:9)

If He had everlasting life, how could He suffer death?

After Christ lived a sinless human life and died under the Old Testament Covenant, He has an inheritance of everlasting life awaiting Him. Living the sinless life did not immediately gain Him everlasting life. It gained Him an inheritance of everlasting life. That is, when the will is probated, He will receive everlasting life.

The Bible clearly states that Christ was a man. You say that Christ created every thing that was ever created. But man was not even created until the sixth day of creation. So where was Christ during the first five days of creation?

You're confusing the spiritual bodied Word with the natural bodied Christ.

The spiritual bodied Word created every thing, not the human natural bodied Christ.

Sadly, it's a very common problem.

[tam]

Peace to you,

You're adding your own spin, myth-one, and you appear to be ignoring the fact that Christ has life in HIMSELF, to give to whomever He chooses, just as the Father has life in HIMSELF. Christ does not have to give up his own eternal life in order to give life to others, just as the Father does not have to give up HIS eternal life in order to give life to His Son (and through His Son, to others).

Christ never had everlasting life as you claim. The Bible states that He was created for the suffering of death:

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. (Hebrews 2:9)

That's kind of an odd translation:

But we see [Jesus], who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because He suffered death, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

But here is more context, same chapter further on:

Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— 15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. 16 For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants. 17 For this reason he had to be made like them,[k] fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. 18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.


Note where it says that because He Himself suffered when tempted (this is obviously speaking of Christ), and that same Christ is the One who is able to help us now.

In any case, yes, Christ was made a man, died, was resurrected and glorified. Note that He (Christ) is NOW crowned with glory and honor because He suffered death. But death just could not hold Him. He yet lives and is ALIVE.

If He had everlasting life, how could He suffer death?

Christ is the One who said that He has life in Himself. I put the verses up there for you to see them for yourself.

But in answer to your question, He could suffer death because He came in the form of a man, in this flesh and blood that has sin and death in it.

But you have avoided the point:

Christ does not have to give up his own eternal life in order to give life to others, just as the Father does not have to give up HIS eternal life in order to give life to His Son (and through His Son, to others).

The Bible clearly states that Christ was a man. You say that Christ created every thing that was ever created.

I said - or rather I quoted what was written in the bible:

On many past occasions and in many different ways, God spoke to our fathers through the prophets. 2But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe Hebrews 1:2

And, where Christ is CLEARLY identified as being the one THROUGH whom all things came:

yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, [Jesus] Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. 1 Corinth 8:6


Compare these with what is written about the Word:

He was in the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him. John 1:10

If the world was made through the Word (John 1:10) and God made the universe through His Son (Christ), and all things came through Christ... then the Word is Christ, the Son of God.

But Christ is faithful as the Son over God’s house. Hebrews 3:6

You're confusing the spiritual bodied Word with the natural bodied Christ.

Sadly, it's a very common problem.

Even Christ refers to Himself by His name after His death and resurrection and ascension. Such as when He appeared to Paul on the road to Damascus, and again when He identifies Himself by name in the Revelation that He (Christ) gives.


But here, so that you can see it in black and white:

Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24 but because [Jesus] lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. Hebrews 7:23, 24


Hopefully that helps!

Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[myth-one.com]

In any case, yes, Christ was made a man, died, was resurrected and glorified. Note that He (Christ) is NOW crowned with glory and honor because He suffered death. But death just could not hold Him. He yet lives and is ALIVE.

OK, so the Word existed from the beginning as God.

The Word became flesh as the man Jesus Christ. So at this point there is the spiritual Word and the man Christ.

Christ the man was resurrected and glorified.

And you claim that both beings now exist as everlasting beings. So both are spiritual bodied beings? Or you claiming that a human man can live eternally in someplace other than the earth?

Basically, the Word reproduced Himself? There was one Word and now there are two?

<===========================================>

Death: the act of dying; the end of life; the total and permanent cessation of all the vital functions of an animal or plant.

If Christ was made flesh for the purpose of suffering death, but He is still alive, then somewhere the plan failed.

Once again you are confusing Christ with the Word.

Christ, the man, died His appointed first death.

[tam]

Peace to you,

In any case, yes, Christ was made a man, died, was resurrected and glorified. Note that He (Christ) is NOW crowned with glory and honor because He suffered death. But death just could not hold Him. He yet lives and is ALIVE.

OK, so the Word existed from the beginning as God.

No, the Word is Christ. Not God.

The Word of God is Christ.

The Word became flesh as the man Jesus Christ. So at this point there is the spiritual Word and the man Christ.

No... at this point, there is just Christ. The Word (who is Christ) became flesh.

One being. Not two.

Please note that the verse does NOT say "PART OF the Word" became flesh. The verse DOES say THE WORD became flesh.

Christ the man was resurrected and glorified.

Yes.

And you claim that both beings now exist as everlasting beings.

No, there is just ONE being. Christ IS the Word.

And the verse from Hebrews supplied in the previous post states clearly in black and white that Christ is alive and lives forever.

So both are spiritual bodied beings?

There is only one being. Christ = the Word. One being. He was with the Father in the beginning, He became flesh for a little while, then He returned to the Father.

<===========================================>

Death: the act of dying; the end of life; the total and permanent cessation of all the vital functions of an animal or plant.

If Christ was made flesh for the purpose of suffering death, but He is still alive, then somewhere the plan failed.

He did die, myth-one... and was then RESURRECTED. Christ did not have to remain dead... but is alive, forever. The plan was an astounding success!

Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24 but because [Jesus] lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. Hebrews 7:23, 24

Once again you are confusing Christ with the Word.

No myth-one. Christ IS the Word.

Christ, the man, died His appointed first death.

And He was subsequently resurrected. Into His glorified body, sure, but it was still HIM. Hence, even He identifies Himself by His same name in Revelation, and also to Paul on the road to Damascus. He is the Spirit and Holy One of God, the Word, the Chosen One of JAH (Messiah), the Truth, the Life, the Light, the Way.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[myth-one.com]

OK, so the Word existed from the beginning as God.

No, the Word is Christ. Not God.

That isn't what the Bible states:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

If the Word is Christ as you claim, then Christ was in the beginning, and Christ was with God, and Christ was God.

The Word of God is Christ.

So are the Word and The Word of God different beings?

Who's on first?