As you all know, Exodus 21 (the passage right after the 10 commandments) completely and fully condones slavery.
It starts by saying "If you buy a Hebrew slave". It then goes on to saying that if you beat your slave to death, it's a bad thing, but if you beat him and after a couple of days he is still alive, then it's ok, because that slave is your property after all.
It says that if you give your slave a wife, and he has children with her, then the children are the property of you the master, not of the slave.
Go read it. Read the whole of Exodus 20 (the ten commandments) and Exodus 21 back to back.
The Bible also condones rape. In Deuteronomy 22:28-29 it says that if a man rapes a woman, then she is forced to marry him. There are another 9 passages in the bible which condone or even encourage rape.
I'm sorry, but I completely disagree. Slavery is wrong and rape is wrong. Period. The Bible is WRONG to condone and encourage them.
Anybody who gives any validity whatsoever to a book that condones two of the most horrible things a human being can do is wrong. Anybody who believes that such a twisted and sick book was written by some kind of benevolent omnipotent invisible man in the sky is delusional. Anybody who takes inspiration or moral guidance from such a twisted text is perverted.
I disagree with Christians. Slavery and rape are WRONG
Moderator: Moderators
-
- Banned
- Posts: 154
- Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:00 am
- Location: New York
- Miles
- Savant
- Posts: 5179
- Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
- Has thanked: 434 times
- Been thanked: 1614 times
Re: I disagree with Christians. Slavery and rape are WRONG
Post #41I await the verse that substantiates this.bjs1 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 1:51 pmDidn't you already provide it? You quoted Exodus 21:16, which says, “Whoever steals someone to sell them as a slave or to keep them for their own slave must be killed." According to the OT law, to force a person into slavery (that is, when they did not willingly sell themselves) was a capital offense.
.
-
- Sage
- Posts: 898
- Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:18 pm
- Has thanked: 41 times
- Been thanked: 225 times
Re: I disagree with Christians. Slavery and rape are WRONG
Post #42The provided verse seems to spell it out pretty clearly. You will have to explain your reasoning as to why it remains un-substantiated.Miles wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:19 pmI await the verse that substantiates this.bjs1 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 1:51 pmDidn't you already provide it? You quoted Exodus 21:16, which says, “Whoever steals someone to sell them as a slave or to keep them for their own slave must be killed." According to the OT law, to force a person into slavery (that is, when they did not willingly sell themselves) was a capital offense.
.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
-Charles Darwin
-Charles Darwin
- Willum
- Savant
- Posts: 9017
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:14 pm
- Location: Yahweh's Burial Place
- Has thanked: 35 times
- Been thanked: 82 times
Re: I disagree with Christians. Slavery and rape are WRONG
Post #43I will never understand how someone who claims to know the ultimate truth, of God, believes they deserve respect, when they cannot distinguish it from a fairy-tale.
You know, science and logic are hard: Religion and fairy tales might be more your speed.
To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight
You know, science and logic are hard: Religion and fairy tales might be more your speed.
To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight
- Miles
- Savant
- Posts: 5179
- Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
- Has thanked: 434 times
- Been thanked: 1614 times
Re: I disagree with Christians. Slavery and rape are WRONG
Post #44Okay The verse I assume you're talking of is Exodus 21:16, which says, “Whoever steals someone to sell them as a slave or to keep them for their own slave must be killed."bjs1 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:15 pmThe provided verse seems to spell it out pretty clearly. You will have to explain your reasoning as to why it remains un-substantiated.Miles wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:19 pmI await the verse that substantiates this.bjs1 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 1:51 pmDidn't you already provide it? You quoted Exodus 21:16, which says, “Whoever steals someone to sell them as a slave or to keep them for their own slave must be killed." According to the OT law, to force a person into slavery (that is, when they did not willingly sell themselves) was a capital offense.
.
The operative qualification here is “Whoever steals someone." Please note that not all slaves are stolen. Many, many slaves were sold, inherited, and so forth. No stealing involved. They are the legal property of another. AND, slaves, by definition are people who are forced to work for their owner or at least obey them.
slave
/slāv/
noun: slave; plural noun: slaves
a person who is the legal property of another and is forced to obey them.
source: Oxford Languages
/slāv/
noun: slave; plural noun: slaves
a person who is the legal property of another and is forced to obey them.
source: Oxford Languages
So, while your Exodus 21:16 may apply in some cases, it has no application here. Now back to your previous claim: According to the OT law, to force a person into slavery (that is, when they did not willingly sell themselves) was a capital offense.
All I ask is that you supply such an OT law. The Book, Chapter, and Verse that says such a thing.
And please note that it was yourself who first brought up the Exodus verse in post 33.
"The Bible does say that rape (Deuteronomy 22:25) or forcing someone to become a slave (Exodus 21:16) both carry the death penalty. So it doesn’t seem entirely accurate to say that the Bible treats either of these things are morally right.''
.
- christian001
- Student
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:30 pm
- Been thanked: 4 times
Re: I disagree with Christians. Slavery and rape are WRONG
Post #45The bible doesn't condone slavery https://www.explainchristianity.com/doe ... e-slavery/ or rape https://www.explainchristianity.com/doe ... done-rape/
- brunumb
- Savant
- Posts: 5993
- Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:20 am
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 6607 times
- Been thanked: 3209 times
Re: I disagree with Christians. Slavery and rape are WRONG
Post #46From the link: "The Bible does not specifically condemn the practice of slavery. It gives instructions on how slaves should be treated, but does not outlaw slavery altogether. Many see this as the Bible condoning all forms of slavery. "christian001 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 11:22 am The bible doesn't condone slavery https://www.explainchristianity.com/doe ... e-slavery/ or rape https://www.explainchristianity.com/doe ... done-rape/
The Bible does condone slavery. The rest of the article is a feeble attempt to redefine and whitewash the practice of people owning others as property.
Leviticus 25:44-46
44 Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. 45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. 46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
- Miles
- Savant
- Posts: 5179
- Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
- Has thanked: 434 times
- Been thanked: 1614 times
Re: I disagree with Christians. Slavery and rape are WRONG
Post #47In a slightly more direct version where a slave is called a "slave."brunumb wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 7:54 pmFrom the link: "The Bible does not specifically condemn the practice of slavery. It gives instructions on how slaves should be treated, but does not outlaw slavery altogether. Many see this as the Bible condoning all forms of slavery. "christian001 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 11:22 am The bible doesn't condone slavery https://www.explainchristianity.com/doe ... e-slavery/ or rape https://www.explainchristianity.com/doe ... done-rape/
The Bible does condone slavery. The rest of the article is a feeble attempt to redefine and whitewash the practice of people owning others as property.
Leviticus 25:44-46
44 Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. 45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. 46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.
Leviticus 25:44-46
44 “About your men and women slaves: You may get men and women slaves from the other nations around you. 45 Also, you may get children as slaves if they come from the families of the foreigners living in your land. These child slaves will belong to you. 46 You may even pass these foreign slaves on to your children after you die so that they will belong to them. They will be your slaves forever. You may make slaves of these foreigners. But you must not be a cruel master over your own brothers, the Israelites.
44 “About your men and women slaves: You may get men and women slaves from the other nations around you. 45 Also, you may get children as slaves if they come from the families of the foreigners living in your land. These child slaves will belong to you. 46 You may even pass these foreign slaves on to your children after you die so that they will belong to them. They will be your slaves forever. You may make slaves of these foreigners. But you must not be a cruel master over your own brothers, the Israelites.
(Of the 54 Bibles I checked, 77% used the term "slave" in Leviticus 25:44)
.
- Tcg
- Savant
- Posts: 8488
- Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
- Location: Third Stone
- Has thanked: 2141 times
- Been thanked: 2293 times
Re: I disagree with Christians. Slavery and rape are WRONG
Post #48The phrase in the middle of verse 46, "They will be your slaves forever." seals the deal. No matter what word one choices to put in place of the word, "salve", slavery is what is described there.Miles wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 8:07 pmIn a slightly more direct version where a slave is called a "slave."brunumb wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 7:54 pmFrom the link: "The Bible does not specifically condemn the practice of slavery. It gives instructions on how slaves should be treated, but does not outlaw slavery altogether. Many see this as the Bible condoning all forms of slavery. "christian001 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 11:22 am The bible doesn't condone slavery https://www.explainchristianity.com/doe ... e-slavery/ or rape https://www.explainchristianity.com/doe ... done-rape/
The Bible does condone slavery. The rest of the article is a feeble attempt to redefine and whitewash the practice of people owning others as property.
Leviticus 25:44-46
44 Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. 45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. 46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.
Leviticus 25:44-46
44 “About your men and women slaves: You may get men and women slaves from the other nations around you. 45 Also, you may get children as slaves if they come from the families of the foreigners living in your land. These child slaves will belong to you. 46 You may even pass these foreign slaves on to your children after you die so that they will belong to them. They will be your slaves forever. You may make slaves of these foreigners. But you must not be a cruel master over your own brothers, the Israelites.
(Of the 54 Bibles I checked, 77% used the term "slave" in Leviticus 25:44)
.
Some who admit the obvious, that this describes slavery, try to claim that it was some special kind of nice slavery. Again, a phrase from verse 46 reveals that isn't the case, "But you must not be a cruel master over your own brothers, the Israelites." By implication that means is fine and dandy if you are a cruel master to your foreign slaves. Sounds just like the antebellum south to me.
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom