Why are Atheists Here?

Argue for and against Christianity

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liamconnor
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Why are Atheists Here?

Post #1

Post by liamconnor »

It seems to me that far more atheists frequent this site than theists.

It is also obviously apparent that non-theist members here are very, very passionate.

But why? What is your goal.


Are you trying to create atheists? But that goal does not fit the strategy, which is typically on the defensive: i.e., "Prove to me there is a God!"


So why are you here? You obviously want theists to be constantly trying to convince you of ideas you think ridiculous. This is very strange. I think Islam an error; yet I am not a member of a single Islamic site. Are you? I think Hinduism strange; still, not seeking a Hindu forum to demand evidence for their beliefs.

So, to reiterate:

what is your goal?

why specifically Christianity?

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Re: Why are Atheists Here?

Post #101

Post by TRANSPONDER »

We_Are_VENOM wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:16 pm
The Nice Centurion wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:03 am
liamconnor wrote: Fri May 05, 2017 1:11 am So why are you here? You obviously want theists to be constantly trying to convince you of ideas you think ridiculous. This is very strange. I think Islam an error; yet I am not a member of a single Islamic site. Are you? I think Hinduism strange; still, not seeking a Hindu forum to demand evidence for their beliefs.

So, to reiterate:

what is your goal?

why specifically Christianity?
I wonder if there is a single islamic site out there where one can debate mohamedans as critically as it is possible to debate christians here.

I never found such a debate forum!

Can anyone help me with that please?
I dont know...but one thing is for certain, you don't need help with bumping old threads.

You seem to have a pretty good handle on that one.

Nothing wrong with bumping up old threads, whether to make new points or make ongoing points rather than start a new thread on the same subject. It's certainly an old and passe point to ask why atheists debate. "Why can't they let people beliie what they like?" because Evangelical Christianity can't. It is designed to go out and make converts of all nations, even if they can't do it at gunpoint anymore.

As to Islam, on my former board was an Islamic forum. We goddless never went there :P But occasionally a Muslim would foray onto the General discussion section, which - with an uncanny similarity to the present situations - atheists had come to dominate by sheer force of argument, so the Bible apologists whined that they were being excluded - in fact it was they who had banned Atheists from the Christianity thread AND they accused atheists of banning Christians from the Atheism forum, which wasn't true. We said that only visiting theists gave us anything much to talk about. It is a thing I noticed that at atheist meetups, we don't talk about atheism.

Anyhow, one persistent Islamic apologist made for an interesting debate where the Quran was shewn to be error - strewn. And it was the Biggies that did it, like salt and fresh do not mix Of course they do, and I won't go into the tabetop model attempts to show that they stayed separate. In time, they mix to make brackish water. There were easy ones like the moon splitting...easy as the sun standing still in the Bible. The Fly's wing rubbish was dismissed as it was in the Hadiths, not the Quran Fine O:) so we can bin and set fire to the Hadiths. There were poetic similes that were arguable, but did reflect a human view of the world, not a godly one. Luke the sun setting into a marsh. Like Moses not seeing the sun because of cloud cover. God would know the sun had already been made.

There are also correct things that could be explained, as in the 'advanced medicine' of clearing crap away from the Tabernacle. Doesn't take a ruler of the universe to see keeping clean as better than getting filthy. The 300 bones or 600 joints was broadly correct. But that wasn't hidden knowledge for the time. And there the claim popped up that an illiterate camel driver could not know these things (science in the Quran). But that was the 'let him write another like it' apologetic.

That was another thread with the claim that the Quran is something that no human could write. Certainly not Muhammad, but only dictated by an angel reciting God's words. Well, there the errors made it as clear that Allah didn't write the Quran as surely as Yhwh didn't dictate Genesis. So who did? It didn't hurt that a debate on the 'prophecy' of the battle in the low place turned out not only to debunk the claim that the battle was fought in or near the Dead sea with is the Lowest place on earth (Science in the Quran gambit) because it seemed that the only battle at that time was between the Sassanids and Heraclius at Antioch. So apart from it being an ignorant or impudent lie, it suggested a later date for the writing of the Quran pretending to be prophecy (the retrospective prophecy scam).

The suggestion that this wonderful poetry was constructed from odd memories of Muhammad's jollies and odd words scratched on pebbles and scraps of camel - hide, being dismissed as laughable nonsense, that poetry of a high order was the diplomatic method at the early Caliph's court supplied the explanation. And ain't it suspicious that Caliph Uthman had the Quran 'Codified' :roll: and all other versions eliminated? No doubt along with all the poets who cast Uthman's religious views in Quranic verse. It may be true that the verse is exquisite and that many can learn it but none can imitate it. The same can be said of Shakespearian English. One can learn it but who can write Shakespere to match him?

So the Quran went down to the same place as the Bible; done and dusted, debunked by error, the Truths explained and the 'Only God could write it' apologetic dealt with just as 'The Gospels have to be eyewitness' apologetic. Just the same frustrating block:- the answer is there but nobody seems to be hearing it.

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Re: Why are Atheists Here?

Post #102

Post by neverknewyou »

liamconnor wrote: Fri May 05, 2017 1:11 am It seems to me that far more atheists frequent this site than theists.

It is also obviously apparent that non-theist members here are very, very passionate.

But why? What is your goal.


Are you trying to create atheists? But that goal does not fit the strategy, which is typically on the defensive: i.e., "Prove to me there is a God!"


So why are you here? You obviously want theists to be constantly trying to convince you of ideas you think ridiculous. This is very strange. I think Islam an error; yet I am not a member of a single Islamic site. Are you? I think Hinduism strange; still, not seeking a Hindu forum to demand evidence for their beliefs.

So, to reiterate:

what is your goal?

why specifically Christianity?
I'm here for an argument.

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Re: Why are Atheists Here?

Post #103

Post by Purple Knight »

liamconnor wrote: Fri May 05, 2017 1:11 amSo why are you here? You obviously want theists to be constantly trying to convince you of ideas you think ridiculous. This is very strange.
Most people would. But I can't declare anything ridiculous unless I look at it carefully. First.

Honestly, and I know this is slightly nasty, I think at least some atheists are here to pick at low-lying fruit. Not me, but some.

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Re: Why are Atheists Here?

Post #104

Post by neverknewyou »

Purple Knight wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 10:16 pm
liamconnor wrote: Fri May 05, 2017 1:11 amSo why are you here? You obviously want theists to be constantly trying to convince you of ideas you think ridiculous. This is very strange.
Most people would. But I can't declare anything ridiculous unless I look at it carefully. First.

Honestly, and I know this is slightly nasty, I think at least some atheists are here to pick at low-lying fruit. Not me, but some.
If only the theists here would offer something other than low lying fruit, give the atheists a challenge for a change, that would be nice.

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Re: Why are Atheists Here?

Post #105

Post by Tcg »

Purple Knight wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 10:16 pm Honestly, and I know this is slightly nasty, I think at least some atheists are here to pick at low-lying fruit. Not me, but some.
I don't know. If some theists leave their fruit lying low, it isn't surprising that it gets picked. If I left mine there, and perhaps I do at times, I'd expect it to get picked. If the debating process is working as it should, we'd learn not to rely on reasoning that is easily plucked. If it is, perhaps we need to reconsider our position. Nothing wrong with that, in fact it sounds like a plus to me. Get rid of the low-lying fruit and see what of value is left.


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Re: Why are Atheists Here?

Post #106

Post by TRANSPONDER »

neverknewyou wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:30 pm
liamconnor wrote: Fri May 05, 2017 1:11 am It seems to me that far more atheists frequent this site than theists.

It is also obviously apparent that non-theist members here are very, very passionate.

But why? What is your goal.


Are you trying to create atheists? But that goal does not fit the strategy, which is typically on the defensive: i.e., "Prove to me there is a God!"


So why are you here? You obviously want theists to be constantly trying to convince you of ideas you think ridiculous. This is very strange. I think Islam an error; yet I am not a member of a single Islamic site. Are you? I think Hinduism strange; still, not seeking a Hindu forum to demand evidence for their beliefs.

So, to reiterate:

what is your goal?

why specifically Christianity?
I'm here for an argument.
I hope we can make that a Meaningful argument. The lowest fruit is the kind that just wants to put down atheists any way they can think of. While they can sometimes be Good Bad examples, I much appreciate a Christian apologist who puts up a good argument and makes me thing. I hate it when they stick there fingers in their ears, refuse engagement and just spam. It's ok even just trotting out the threadbare worn out arguments from McDowell and C.S Lewis. After all the Arguments of Lane - Craig and Plantinga are just as much dealt with as Blaize Pascal. But it never hurts to explain the refutation yet again.

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Re: Why are Atheists Here?

Post #107

Post by Purple Knight »

Tcg wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 1:04 am
Purple Knight wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 10:16 pm Honestly, and I know this is slightly nasty, I think at least some atheists are here to pick at low-lying fruit. Not me, but some.
I don't know. If some theists leave their fruit lying low, it isn't surprising that it gets picked. If I left mine there, and perhaps I do at times, I'd expect it to get picked. If the debating process is working as it should, we'd learn not to rely on reasoning that is easily plucked. If it is, perhaps we need to reconsider our position. Nothing wrong with that, in fact it sounds like a plus to me. Get rid of the low-lying fruit and see what of value is left.
I do agree with this. The nasty part comes when people are just here to laugh at what seem to be absurd views from a neutral perspective, without really examining them.

A lot of topics kind of go with the "Isn't this just obviously horrible?" angle and rely on people simply sharing that perspective to identify it as such, like women submitting to their husbands as they do to the Lord, or like slavery being endorsed by the Bible. I imagine that every time progress is made, people will see the last age as equally obviously horrible. The idea is, if God is perfect, then he should have the apex morality. So far, so good, but that doesn't mean people can do it right this moment. Hyper-veganism might be the apex morality, where you don't eat anything that was ever alive... but trying to force people to do that without a replicator isn't going to work.

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Re: Why are Atheists Here?

Post #108

Post by TRANSPONDER »

Vegetarianism is a nice example of how humans can see what is morally right to do (don't kill and eat animals) but God has made a world where we are expected to use animals as disposables .

Of course, from the Atheist point of view, it is simple: that is the hand that evolution dealt us, and evolution doesn't have to be moral - it has to give a species an (instinctive) option for survival. It is no problem at all for atheists to see that humans have a better sense of morality than evolution does (as well as seeing what is necessary for humans may not be moral but we can't do it now but may hope to eat meat without killing when we can do it in vats or with replicators), but when it's humans being more moral than gods, theists must have a problem; and I for one am glad I don't have to worry about wriggling out of it by blaming it on Humans even though God did it all, or blaming it on Satan, as though God couldn't depose him and take over the rule of earth yesterday, or they just dismiss or deny the problem. Which they can do - they can believe what they like, but we goddless will continue to point out that the Theist system make no sense, and does not deserve belief, never mind claims that it's a Good system.

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Re:

Post #109

Post by The Nice Centurion »

Elijah John wrote: Fri May 05, 2017 10:35 am
alexxcJRO wrote: I chose Christianity because i was familiar with the dogma and because in my opinion is the most idiotic, illogical , bulls**t story i ever heard. 8-)
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Re: Re:

Post #110

Post by Tcg »

The Nice Centurion wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:46 pm
Elijah John wrote: Fri May 05, 2017 10:35 am
alexxcJRO wrote: I chose Christianity because i was familiar with the dogma and because in my opinion is the most idiotic, illogical , bulls**t story i ever heard. 8-)
Moderator Comment

You could have made the same point without the offensive language. Omitting a few letters does not make it OK.

Please review the Rules.


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Not a stout believer in Christ, are you, Elijah John ?
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Please refrain from uncivil comments about others. Either add something of value or refrain from posting.


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