The Atonement

[Revelations won]

To all true Christians there is nothing more important to our salvation than "The Atonement of Jesus Christ".

Having said that, is it not therefore extremely important to every individual to understand fully what and how the atonement works for our benefit?

What does the atonement do or does not do?

What is required on our part to receive the full benefits of the atonement?

What and when and by whom did the atonement begin?

Can anyone clearly show all scriptures pertaining to the atonement?

I look forward to hearing your "take" on this most important topic.

Kind regards,
RW

[myth-one.com]

Too all JW's,

It appears from your posts that you deny the divinity of Jesus Christ.

I have one question for you.

If Jesus the Christ had failed as our Savior and redeemer and as the only name under heaven whereby man may be saved, could anyone ever be saved?

Kind regards,
RW

Without Jesus, the only guaranteed way to be saved from the wages of sin was to never sin.

[Revelations won]

Revelations won wrote: ↑
Sun Jul 31, 2022 9:32 am
Too all JW's,

It appears from your posts that you deny the divinity of Jesus Christ.

I have one question for you.

If Jesus the Christ had failed as our Savior and redeemer and as the only name under heaven whereby man may be saved, could anyone ever be saved?

Kind regards,
RW

myth-one.com replied:

“Without Jesus, the only guaranteed way to be saved from the wages of sin was to never sin.”

My response:

I have not seen to date anyone, but Christ who could meet that requirement.

The scripture clearly states that there is only one name under heaven whereby man can be saved.

So are you agreeing that without the atonement of Jesus the Christ God could not save anyone?

Kind regards,
RW

[myth-one.com]

Revelations won wrote: ↑
Sun Jul 31, 2022 9:32 am
Too all JW's,

It appears from your posts that you deny the divinity of Jesus Christ.

I have one question for you.

If Jesus the Christ had failed as our Savior and redeemer and as the only name under heaven whereby man may be saved, could anyone ever be saved?

Kind regards,
RW

myth-one.com replied:

“Without Jesus, the only guaranteed way to be saved from the wages of sin was to never sin.”

My response:

I have not seen to date anyone, but Christ who could meet that requirement.

Please bear with me for a minute on this statement:

Under the original covenant between God and man the wages of sin was the second death.

But sin is not imputed if one doesn't know that committing the act constitutes a sin. So one could make the case that perhaps young children, perhaps some mentally retarded or people who never even heard the gospel good news might avoid the wages of sin.

So let's limit this post to those humans who knowingly committed sins and had then imputed against them.

With that restriction, yes -- Jesus Christ is the only person to ever qualify for everlasting life under the Old Testament requirement of living a sinless human life!

The scripture clearly states that there is only one name under heaven whereby man can be saved.

Correct -- Jesus Christ.

So are you agreeing that without the atonement of Jesus the Christ God could not save anyone?

What Jesus did was to get us out from under the Old Testament Covenant and then created a better Covenant under which all we must do to be saved is to believe in Him as our Saviour from the wages of our sins.

I wouldn't call that an atonement, but an improvement or correcting of a fault:

But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

The only way one could become an heir to eternal life under the first covenant was to never sin. However, there was a fault in the first testament in that all mankind sinned! Therefore, no one could gain eternal life under the first testament. Since the first covenant contained a fault, God created a second or New Testament.

Step one was to have one man qualify for everlasting life under the original covenant. That person was then allowed to gift His inheritance of everlasting life which He secured under the original covenant to those who believe in Him as their Saviour under the New Covenant. Here is how God justifies the creation of the New Covenant:

Therefore as by the offence of one (Adam) judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

To me, atonement implies that we must take some action which makes recompense for sins.

And that is no longer the case under the New Testament Covenant between God and mankind. Under the New Testament Covenant, salvation is a gift from God through Jesus Christ:

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The only requirement is to accept the gift by believing in Jesus as one's Saviour:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

It's a gift with only one condition -- believing in Jesus.

That being the case, atonement is not required. It's a good thing to atone for wrongs committed, but it is not required.

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Also, note that since sin is no longer a determinate in the equation, we can no longer gain salvation by remaining sinless. This solves the question about infants, the severely retarded, and those who never even heard the name Jesus. None of those believe in Jesus.

The gospel good news will be preached to these after they are resurrected as humans and they will choose to accept or reject the gift of God at that time:

For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.

Likewise, everyone who lived prior to the New Testament Covenant will make their decision about accepting or rejecting Jesus after their resurrection.

This includes David, Moses, Daniel, and many other biblical heroes who died under the Old Testament covenant.

[Brightfame52]

Jn 17:1-3

1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

If Christ has not given Eternal Life to each person given to Him by the Father, then He has failed to Glorify the Father, yet many who claim to be sent ministers of Christ, teach that many Christ died for, many of those given to Him by the Father, will receive Eternal Damnation and the Second Death !

[Brightfame52]

Freed from sin !

Rom 6:7

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

2 Cor 5:14

14For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

All for whom Christ died for, His Body the Church, actually in the eyes of God's Law and Justice, died with Him, and so be dead, they are dead to sin and dead to the law !

Rom 7:4

Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Paul is saying, all for whom Christ died are dead to the Law because of His Body, that is because of this 1 Pet 2:24

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

You see how both Paul and Peter teach the same thing ?

Now when I say that the Elect or the Body of Christ is freed from their sins, what is meant, not that they are not born sinners, in fact, some of the worst sort of sinners they may be, but they are born free from the condemnation of sin, they are born sinners acquitted of all their transgressions. The word freed in Rom 6:7 is the greek word dikaioō:

and means:

to render righteous or such he ought to be

2) to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered

3) to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

They are born as sinners already Justified or declared Righteous before the sight of God. They have no sins charged against them, Because, Christ has paid their redemption price already, even though it has yet been experimentally applied to them by their New Birth !

So Christ's Sheep cannot be born as others condemned already ! Those to it is said this of Jn 3:18

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Their condemnation is not because of their unbelief or their refusal to believe on the Son, but for their sins against God's Law are they condemned already, and their refusal believe is an evidence of they being under condemnation !

But those Christ died for, they cannot be condemned by God's law as unbelievers, because Christ has satisfied all of God's Law and Justice on their behalf, so they are born freed from sin ! and dead to the law by the body of Christ !

[Brightfame52]

We are sanctified by the Death of Christ !

Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

We know that Christ could not have died or has offered Himself for everyone with exception, simply because one the accomplishments of His Death or Offering [same thing] is that it [ The Death] sanctified forever those He died for !

That word sanctified means , they were set apart for a Holy Purpose of God, permanently !

The word sanctified in the greek is in the perfect tense which means :

Perfect

The perfect tense in Greek corresponds to the perfect tense in English, and describes an action which is viewed as having been completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be repeated.

Jesus' last cry from the cross, TETELESTAI ("It is finished!") is a good example of the perfect tense used in this sense, namely "It [the atonement] has been accomplished, completely, once and for all time."


Those Christ died for have been sanctified once and for all time !


When an Elect sinner is born into this world, since Christ died for them over 2000 yrs ago, they are born as sinners, dead in trespasses and sins, children of wrath By Nature as others, enemies in their minds against God, however that said, they are perfectly set apart by God for a Holy Purpose to perform for God. Like Jeremiah Jer 1:5

5Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

But guess what ? Jeremiah was still born a sinner, by nature a child of wrath as others [Eph 2:3], an enemies to God in his mind by wicked works [Col 1:21]

So every elect sinner born into this world that Christ died for and consequently sanctified them for the Holy Purpose of God, must be born again to fulfill that purpose. It is inevitable, they must and all be born again by the Spirit, a Sanctifying Work of His 2 Thess 2:13

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Oh Yes, Like believers of the Truth today, so did Jeremiah need the same work of the Spirit to bring Him to Faith in the Truth ! So He could Preach the Gospel of Imputed Righteousness Jer 23:6

In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

He had the same righteousness revealed to him by the Gospel as believers do today Rom 1:16-17

16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Now if everyone Christ died for does not come to experience the Sanctifying Work of the Holy Spirit as described in 2 Thess 2:13, Christ's death has failed its purpose of God. The Death of Christ alone has ensured and made certain the setting apart experimentally of each member, or person of His Body He died for, for each one has a Holy Purpose for God to perform 1 Cor 12 ; Eph 2:10

Now, If Christ died for these Matt 25:41 then they also had to be sanctified forever for God's Holy Purpose, which is absurd ! 7

[Brightfame52]

Heb 9:12

Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

When Christ with His Blood went into the Holy Place,it was to present His Blood before the God and Judge of His People, and because of the Resurrection we know that His Blood was accepted, His Work was accepted in behalf of all whom He died for, this meant also that all the persons had been accepted of God. So even as by nature enemies, by His Offering all for whom He died were reconciled to God Rom 5:10

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

That word reconciled means :

return to favour with, be reconciled to one

c) to receive one into favour

They were received into God's Favor. The very receiving Christ into Glory is proof positive that His Atonement for the Elect had been accepted, and as Christ the Head had been accepted, His acceptance was the also the acceptance of His Members of His Body He represented, for they are one in God's Sight. So when one for whom Christ died is born into this world a filthy sinner, they nevertheless have been accepted by God into His Favour, to the Praise of the Glory of His Grace Eph 1:6

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.7

[Brightfame52]

Having obtained Eternal Redemption for us !

Heb 9:12

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Who are the Us ? Why it is the Heirs of God, Joint Heirs with Jesus Christ as Per Heb 1:14

14Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Heb 6:17

Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:


Heb 11:9

By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

Heb 1:2

Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Rom 8:17

And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Rom 9:8

8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

This was not a temporal Redemption, but Eternal, it's effects are outside of time. It's infinite value was Eternal and Immutable in God's sight. It being Eternal, its forgiveness is from everlasting to everlasting Ps 103:12,17

12As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

17But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

It comprehends from when Christ offered Himself on the Cross, and made Atonement for all the sins of all of the Election of grace, who had lived from Adam, to include all of the Election of Grace then present, and yet all that should live upon the Earth until the end of time. This redemption is without date, and of everlasting duration, and existed in the Eternal Mind of God, since the existence of God ! If we can tell when God began to exist, or when He can cease to exist, then we can know the beginning and ending of the Eternal Redemption Christ obtained for all those He died for. For it was Eternal in the engagements that were entered into [ Christ's Suretyship of the Everlasting Covenant with the Father and the Spirit], in the accomplishments of what it has done, and the Eternal Glory that shall be revealed ! 1 Pet 5:10

But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

[Revelations won]

Dear Brightfame52,

Thank you for your last post.

It is well that you pointed out that Christ would be heir to all things or that he would receive all that the father hath. The scriptures make it very clear that we also can be joint hairs with Christ and also receive the same blessings as joint heirs with Christ according to our faithfulness.

Kind regards,
RW

[Brightfame52]

Dear Brightfame52,

Thank you for your last post.

It is well that you pointed out that Christ would be heir to all things or that he would receive all that the father hath. The scriptures make it very clear that we also can be joint hairs with Christ and also receive the same blessings as joint heirs with Christ according to our faithfulness.

Kind regards,
RW

Thats false. Christians, are those who were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world, and so they became Joint Heirs with Christ then. Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him[The Heir] before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Rom 8:16-17

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Christ the Head Heir fulfilled and the faithfulness and conditions required for the Chosen in Him.