Is this an Accurate and Easily understood definition of Atheism?

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Is this an Accurate and Easily understood definition of Atheism?

Post #1

Post by Tcg »

.
I recently heard this definition of atheism:
"Atheism is the condition of not believing that a God or deity exists."
I think it is clearer than the one I usually espouse which is that atheism is the lack of belief in god/gods. The only issue I have with is its singular nature. Perhaps, Atheism is the condition of not believing that any gods or deities exist, would be better.

Is this a good definition?


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: Is this an Accurate and Easily understood definition of Atheism?

Post #41

Post by Difflugia »

William wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:14 pmThe problem appears to be that those in the position of "Maybe - Maybe not. More investigation is required" ...
Do they believe that gods exist? If they do on the balance, even if they think more investigation is required, they're theist. If they don't believe that, they're atheist. Members of that group are only "problems" in this discussion if they don't like being called atheist even if they fit the definition in this thread. If they want to use the other common set of definitions in which "atheist," "agnostic," and "theist" are points along the same continuum, they can, but if they want to prescribe how Tcg uses the word, they're on the wrong side of the argument.
William wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:14 pm...as an answer to the question of whether GODs exist, the answer confuses the issue, because clearly we understand what a theist is [claiming GODs exist] and so just as clearly we should be able to understand that an atheist is not a theist.[does not claim GODs exist]

The claim; "GODs exist", [therefore we exist within a creation]

The protest: "Show us that these GODs exist" [and we will accept that we exist within a creation]
You're the one confusing things. You're attempting to conflate two questions that may be related, but aren't the same question. "Gods exist" and "we exist within a creation" are neither identically equal nor does one necessarily follow from the other.
William wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:14 pmThe non-theist non-atheist observer: "Wait a minute...before we go jumping to conclusions either way, we first should make great effort to investigate whether or not we exist within a creation."
By the definition in this thread, a "non-theist non-atheist" is the equivalent of a married bachelor. If "bachelor" means "not married," as it most commonly does, they can't coexist unless you use an alternate definition of "bachelor."
My pronouns are he, him, and his.

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Re: Is this an Accurate and Easily understood definition of Atheism?

Post #42

Post by neverknewyou »

Tcg wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:54 am .
I recently heard this definition of atheism:
"Atheism is the condition of not believing that a God or deity exists."
I think it is clearer than the one I usually espouse which is that atheism is the lack of belief in god/gods. The only issue I have with is its singular nature. Perhaps, Atheism is the condition of not believing that any gods or deities exist, would be better.

Is this a good definition?


Tcg
Some atheists don't give a pink and puckered rats petunia how theists describe atheists or whether any of it matters because when all is said and done, nature is the same for everybody no matter what we believe.

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Re: Is this an Accurate and Easily understood definition of Atheism?

Post #43

Post by TRANSPONDER »

neverknewyou wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:29 pm
Tcg wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:54 am .
I recently heard this definition of atheism:
"Atheism is the condition of not believing that a God or deity exists."
I think it is clearer than the one I usually espouse which is that atheism is the lack of belief in god/gods. The only issue I have with is its singular nature. Perhaps, Atheism is the condition of not believing that any gods or deities exist, would be better.

Is this a good definition?


Tcg
Some atheists don't give a pink and puckered rats petunia how theists describe atheists or whether any of it matters because when all is said and done, nature is the same for everybody no matter what we believe.
That's certainly true at the very obvious level. Yet the bothersome fact remains that the persistent misconception about what atheism is and isn't remains and is even a common misunderstanding. What's worse, it can be misused in debate to try to prove atheism blinkered, illogical or even non -existent. It isn't hard to understand and I just think it doesn't get said enough because the discussion doesn't seem to be there, outside of Forums like this.

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Re: Is this an Accurate and Easily understood definition of Atheism?

Post #44

Post by Diogenes »

Tcg wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:54 am .
I recently heard this definition of atheism:
"Atheism is the condition of not believing that a God or deity exists."
It's fine.
What interests me is that theists tend to dispute definitions of 'atheist' more vehemently than non theists.

My concern is technical, in that I suggest "A-theism" refers to a particular type of god, a god that is personal, and at least somewhat anthropomorphic; a god homo sapiens can relate to.

And perhaps that is correct, that a 'god' must somehow be personal. I don't use the word 'atheist' generally, at least in reference to myself. And tho' I hate the word 'agnostic' as a cowardly response to such questions of belief, I remain open to a concept that is beyond my ability to define... a 'god' who simply is what it is... beyond defining. I like to think there is some beneficial something out there... in here... wherever..., but I would not demean it by pretending I could define it.

But in the end, I suppose 'atheist' is closer than any other single word that comes to mind. Who knows?
Last edited by Diogenes on Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is this an Accurate and Easily understood definition of Atheism?

Post #45

Post by wannabe »

Tcg wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:53 pm
Miles wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:46 pm
Tcg wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:37 pm
Miles wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:29 pm
Tcg wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:54 am .
I recently heard this definition of atheism:
"Atheism is the condition of not believing that a God or deity exists."
I think it is clearer than the one I usually espouse which is that atheism is the lack of belief in god/gods. The only issue I have with is its singular nature. Perhaps, Atheism is the condition of not believing that any gods or deities exist, would be better.

Is this a good definition?

To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists
In as much as


a. the meaning of "not" and "lack of" are essentially equivalent in the two definitions,

b. the "exists" in the first definition is a given condition in the second definition,

c. that "deity" has no business being in the first definition.

d. the plural "gods" in the second definition is superfluous.


Resulting in:


1. "Atheism is t̶h̶e̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶d̶i̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶o̶f̶ not believing that a God o̶r̶ ̶d̶e̶i̶t̶y̶ exists."

and

2. "Atheism is a lack of belief in gods̶."


I see no meaningful difference between "Atheism is not believing that a God exists." and "Atheism is a lack of belief in the existence of god."


.
I agree, but the former may be easier to comprehend than the latter. For whatever reason, some are confused about or perhaps even intentionally try to confuse what it means to be an atheist. I'm just wondering if the definition I presented would help people understand what atheism actually is.


Tcg
Personally, I like the use of the word "lack" because it indicates a willingness to consider the possibility that god does exist. My particular position.

.
Yes, I hold that position too. I'm just trying to see if we can find a definition that would clarify what atheists are. One that wouldn't lead others to claim that rocks or trees or whatnot are also atheists. It appears however that no matter how we describe it there will be those who intend to misdescribe it.


Tcg

I think labels are for groups, therefor the subject should be addressing what an "atheist" is, not "atheism", because everyone's stance is individual.
I think an atheistt is a person who can honestly say: " I do not acknowledge the existence of any god or deity."
I think an agnostict is a person who can honestly say: " I do not accredit any religion with the truth of creation."
I know the question relates to the validity of the statement,"Atheism is the condition of not believing that a God or deity exists."
However i feel the statement is inaccurate because of the word "condition", which suggests the form of some kind of conditioning has taken place, which leads to an ambiguous result for the sake of understanding.
So to me, atheism is,or consists of, those who can honestly say: " I do not acknowledge the existence of any god or deity." ( not- can not, will not, or should not, but just, do not)
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Re: Is this an Accurate and Easily understood definition of Atheism?

Post #46

Post by wannabe »

Tcg wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:53 pm
Miles wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:46 pm
Tcg wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:37 pm
Miles wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:29 pm
Tcg wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:54 am .
I recently heard this definition of atheism:
"Atheism is the condition of not believing that a God or deity exists."
I think it is clearer than the one I usually espouse which is that atheism is the lack of belief in god/gods. The only issue I have with is its singular nature. Perhaps, Atheism is the condition of not believing that any gods or deities exist, would be better.

Is this a good definition?

To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists
In as much as


a. the meaning of "not" and "lack of" are essentially equivalent in the two definitions,

b. the "exists" in the first definition is a given condition in the second definition,

c. that "deity" has no business being in the first definition.

d. the plural "gods" in the second definition is superfluous.


Resulting in:


1. "Atheism is t̶h̶e̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶d̶i̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶o̶f̶ not believing that a God o̶r̶ ̶d̶e̶i̶t̶y̶ exists."

and

2. "Atheism is a lack of belief in gods̶."


I see no meaningful difference between "Atheism is not believing that a God exists." and "Atheism is a lack of belief in the existence of god."


.
I agree, but the former may be easier to comprehend than the latter. For whatever reason, some are confused about or perhaps even intentionally try to confuse what it means to be an atheist. I'm just wondering if the definition I presented would help people understand what atheism actually is.


Tcg
Personally, I like the use of the word "lack" because it indicates a willingness to consider the possibility that god does exist. My particular position.

.
Yes, I hold that position too. I'm just trying to see if we can find a definition that would clarify what atheists are. One that wouldn't lead others to claim that rocks or trees or whatnot are also atheists. It appears however that no matter how we describe it there will be those who intend to misdescribe it.


Tcg

I think labels are for groups, therefor the subject should be addressing what an "atheist" is, not "atheism", because everyone's stance is individual.
I think an atheistt is a person who can honestly say: " I do not acknowledge the existence of any god or deity."
I think an agnostict is a person who can honestly say: " I do not accredit any religion with the truth of creation."
I know the question relates to the validity of the statement,"Atheism is the condition of not believing that a God or deity exists."
However i feel the statement is inaccurate because of the word "condition", which suggests the form of some kind of conditioning has taken place, which leads to an ambiguous result for the sake of understanding.
So to me, atheism is,or consists of, those who can honestly say: " I do not acknowledge the existence of any god or deity." ( not- can not, will not, or should not, but just, do not)
:
:



Live to give , Give to live ( love Jesus )

: I believe a mans spirit is more than just his imagination.

I believe in forever. That's true even without religion.(or man)

: Live to give, give to life, Forgive to live.

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Re: Is this an Accurate and Easily understood definition of Atheism?

Post #47

Post by wannabe »

Tcg wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:53 pm
Miles wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:46 pm
Tcg wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:37 pm
Miles wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:29 pm
Tcg wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:54 am .
I recently heard this definition of atheism:
"Atheism is the condition of not believing that a God or deity exists."
I think it is clearer than the one I usually espouse which is that atheism is the lack of belief in god/gods. The only issue I have with is its singular nature. Perhaps, Atheism is the condition of not believing that any gods or deities exist, would be better.

Is this a good definition?

To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists
In as much as


a. the meaning of "not" and "lack of" are essentially equivalent in the two definitions,

b. the "exists" in the first definition is a given condition in the second definition,

c. that "deity" has no business being in the first definition.

d. the plural "gods" in the second definition is superfluous.


Resulting in:


1. "Atheism is t̶h̶e̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶d̶i̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶o̶f̶ not believing that a God o̶r̶ ̶d̶e̶i̶t̶y̶ exists."

and

2. "Atheism is a lack of belief in gods̶."


I see no meaningful difference between "Atheism is not believing that a God exists." and "Atheism is a lack of belief in the existence of god."


.
I agree, but the former may be easier to comprehend than the latter. For whatever reason, some are confused about or perhaps even intentionally try to confuse what it means to be an atheist. I'm just wondering if the definition I presented would help people understand what atheism actually is.


Tcg
Personally, I like the use of the word "lack" because it indicates a willingness to consider the possibility that god does exist. My particular position.

.
Yes, I hold that position too. I'm just trying to see if we can find a definition that would clarify what atheists are. One that wouldn't lead others to claim that rocks or trees or whatnot are also atheists. It appears however that no matter how we describe it there will be those who intend to misdescribe it.


Tcg

I think labels are for groups, therefor the subject should be addressing what an "atheist" is, not "atheism", because everyone's stance is individual.
I think an atheistt is a person who can honestly say: " I do not acknowledge the existence of any god or deity."
I think an agnostict is a person who can honestly say: " I do not accredit any religion with the truth of creation."
I know the question relates to the validity of the statement,"Atheism is the condition of not believing that a God or deity exists."
However i feel the statement is inaccurate because of the word "condition", which suggests the form of some kind of conditioning has taken place, which leads to an ambiguous result for the sake of understanding.
So to me, atheism is,or consists of, those who can honestly say: " I do not acknowledge the existence of any god or deity." ( not- can not, will not, or should not, but just, do not)
:
:



Live to give , Give to live ( love Jesus )

: I believe a mans spirit is more than just his imagination.

I believe in forever. That's true even without religion.(or man)

: Live to give, give to life, Forgive to live.

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Re: Is this an Accurate and Easily understood definition of Atheism?

Post #48

Post by Tcg »

wannabe wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:31 am
Tcg wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:53 pm
Miles wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:46 pm
Tcg wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:37 pm
Miles wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:29 pm
Tcg wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:54 am .
I recently heard this definition of atheism:
"Atheism is the condition of not believing that a God or deity exists."
I think it is clearer than the one I usually espouse which is that atheism is the lack of belief in god/gods. The only issue I have with is its singular nature. Perhaps, Atheism is the condition of not believing that any gods or deities exist, would be better.

Is this a good definition?

To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists
In as much as


a. the meaning of "not" and "lack of" are essentially equivalent in the two definitions,

b. the "exists" in the first definition is a given condition in the second definition,

c. that "deity" has no business being in the first definition.

d. the plural "gods" in the second definition is superfluous.


Resulting in:


1. "Atheism is t̶h̶e̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶d̶i̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶o̶f̶ not believing that a God o̶r̶ ̶d̶e̶i̶t̶y̶ exists."

and

2. "Atheism is a lack of belief in gods̶."


I see no meaningful difference between "Atheism is not believing that a God exists." and "Atheism is a lack of belief in the existence of god."


.
I agree, but the former may be easier to comprehend than the latter. For whatever reason, some are confused about or perhaps even intentionally try to confuse what it means to be an atheist. I'm just wondering if the definition I presented would help people understand what atheism actually is.


Tcg
Personally, I like the use of the word "lack" because it indicates a willingness to consider the possibility that god does exist. My particular position.

.
Yes, I hold that position too. I'm just trying to see if we can find a definition that would clarify what atheists are. One that wouldn't lead others to claim that rocks or trees or whatnot are also atheists. It appears however that no matter how we describe it there will be those who intend to misdescribe it.


Tcg

I think labels are for groups, therefor the subject should be addressing what an "atheist" is, not "atheism", because everyone's stance is individual.
I think an atheistt is a person who can honestly say: " I do not acknowledge the existence of any god or deity."
I think an agnostict is a person who can honestly say: " I do not accredit any religion with the truth of creation."
I know the question relates to the validity of the statement,"Atheism is the condition of not believing that a God or deity exists."
However i feel the statement is inaccurate because of the word "condition", which suggests the form of some kind of conditioning has taken place, which leads to an ambiguous result for the sake of understanding.
So to me, atheism is,or consists of, those who can honestly say: " I do not acknowledge the existence of any god or deity." ( not- can not, will not, or should not, but just, do not)
I'm not sure that I can agree. To state that atheists don't acknowledge the existence of any god seems to imply that both a god exists and that atheists simply refuse to acknowledge its existence. I don't refuse to acknowledge the existence of any god; I'm simply not convinced any gods exist.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: Is this an Accurate and Easily understood definition of Atheism?

Post #49

Post by wannabe »

[Replying to Tcg in post #48]

So how about this:

So to me, atheism is,or consists of, those who can honestly say: " I am not convinced of the existence of any god or deity."
:
:



Live to give , Give to live ( love Jesus )

: I believe a mans spirit is more than just his imagination.

I believe in forever. That's true even without religion.(or man)

: Live to give, give to life, Forgive to live.

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Re: Is this an Accurate and Easily understood definition of Atheism?

Post #50

Post by Tcg »

wannabe wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:47 am [Replying to Tcg in post #48]

So how about this:

So to me, atheism is,or consists of, those who can honestly say: " I am not convinced of the existence of any god or deity."
Yes, I think that is an accurate definition. There are a few of them and perhaps by discussing them all we can come to a better understanding of what it means, and perhaps equally as important doesn't mean, to be an atheist.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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