ADAM WAS NOT DECIEVED - THE SPIRITUAL REASON WHY

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ADAM WAS NOT DECIEVED - THE SPIRITUAL REASON WHY

Post #1

Post by Eddie Ramos »

The message of the gospel is the central thread which runs through every account in the Bible. The problem is that because the gospel is the spiritual message of the Bible, it is often concealed within the literal account of historical events in the Bible. The Bible refers to is as the spiritual meaning which can be seen by God's people if they search for it. One such example is that of the fall of Adam and Eve. On the surface, we see the serpent talking with Eve. But why did Satan specifically go after Eve and not Adam? Because of who each of them represent spiritually. The Bible tells us that Adam was a figure or typified Christ.

Romans 5:14 (KJV 1900)
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.


Since Adam spiritually represented Christ, then Eve (Adam's wife) represented the bride of Christ (the true believers).

2 Corinthians 11:2 (KJV 1900)
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.


Using this spiritual comparison, now we can see why Satan targeted Eve, because Eve, the wife (like the true believers) was the weaker vessel.

Thus Satan deceived Eve into sinning. Eve was deceived, but Adam wasn't.

1 Timothy 2:14 (KJV 1900)
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.


Well, if Adam was not deceived, then why did he also sin? Well, if we keep the spiritual picture in mind of who they represent, then this scripture comes to mind.

2 Corinthians 5:21 (KJV 1900)
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.


Adam was not deceived into sinning, he sinned willingly because his wife sinned. In other words, he who knew no sin (like Christ) became sin because his wife (the true believers) had become sin. And his punishment was death.

Genesis 3:17–19 (KJV 1900)
And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.


Can anyone see the spiritual picture of the gospel in the account of the fall of mankind per the scriptures?

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Re: ADAM WAS NOT DECIEVED - THE SPIRITUAL REASON WHY

Post #21

Post by Eddie Ramos »

Miles wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 4:41 pm
Yeah, I pretty much figured my reply would put you in a corner where, again, you'd have to resort to the lame "Sorry you're incapable of understanding what only we True Children of God do." Not that you don't try to use common sense in some of your answers, but when it fails you have this cute fall-back position you try to hide behind.

Actually, your position of superiority, where logic and common sense are a hindrance, is probably the most amusing we've had around here in quite some time.


Have a good day. I know I am.


.
Actually, if it seems like I've tried using my own common sense in previous replies, then that's not at all the impression I meant to give. I try not to make any statements unless I'm sure those statements are taught in the scriptures. This way, it's not at all my own wisdom that people can examine for themselves, but the Bible's.

As far as being "cornered ", I don't mind if that's how you view our exchanges because, no matter what the topic of discussion is, we are debating it from 2 completely opposite sides. So, after answering your questions on any particular topic (as before), the conversation leads to you slandering the same person you've joined this forum to discuss (God).

So ,by the second or third exchange, I can tell that you're just looking for an angle to prove to yourself that God doesn't exist and that His Word in not true. I wish your interest in discussing the scriptures were for a different motive, but that is completely in God's hands, not mine.

I hope you continue having a good day.

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Re: ADAM WAS NOT DECIEVED - THE SPIRITUAL REASON WHY

Post #22

Post by William »

[Replying to Eddie Ramos in post #10]
If you read what is taking place and try and put yourself in Adam's place, then perhaps because you and I would cast blame off of ourselves, doesn't mean that this is the correct way to understand what we read in the scriptures. The scriptures do not record whatever has entered into the minds of men to speak, but they spoke as they were moved to speak and God recorded exactly that which he wanted to place within his word. This is why ALL of scripture is God breathed, meaning it came from the mouth of God.
That is debatable as "God-Breathed" could simply be referring to someone being inspired by their subjective relationship with a great mind they think of through the limitation of their own mind, and thus express imagery through the belief filters of their own minds.

This would signify that what anyone writes about such relationship their telling of it will be tainted with misunderstanding - especially if they themselves had the need to make their invisible friend more visible with dress-ups.

All theistic stories about the gods are more ancient than the discovery of writting, even as ancient as humans learning how to control fire - so this word was breathed through a different medium and kept alive and along with that natural process - many filters of human interaction with IT would have distorted the nature of the Thing that IT - fundamental - was/is - as if IT speaks for ITSelf through the prisms of human minds - as if IT would appear to be happy with what IT is being dressed up in...but how do we know, because to claim IT is happy with the arrangements, is dressing it up to look like that might be the case...

Is IT "God-Breathing" because it does not KNOW what IT is, and that is what the Tetragrammaton represents? [I AM "Whatever you want me to be"]

On one level, sure! Why not?

But on other levels, perhaps IT knows exactly what IT is and is open to the possibility that Individual Human Beings might possibly cease trying to dress IT up and cease believing in the stories which dressed IT up and start paying attention...

First - one has to be aware that we exist within a creation and discover the way which will show one that this is most likely the case.
Second - after First - one has to figure out the best ways in which one can assist the Creator in transmitting ITs "Word" on ITSelf even if that means IT has to undress and get naked so as we can get a better look at what IT is we aren't seeing....

First Things First
[Closer to The Source
Who woulda thought!]

If one continues to view GOD through the dressings of a book, then the focus/worship is on the costume and not what resides underneath the costume...one will never get to first base going in that direction...

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Re: ADAM WAS NOT DECIEVED - THE SPIRITUAL REASON WHY

Post #23

Post by bjs1 »

[Replying to Eddie Ramos in post #1]


I see at least two problems with this.

The first is that we are told that when Eve took the fruit, “She gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it” (Genesis 3:6). Adam was present when Eve was deceived. He participated in the sin and did not speak up when Eve sinned. Either he participated with Eve and he sinned, or he intentionally allowed Eve to be deceived and thereby Adam sinned (and not in a way that was for his wife).

Second, the Bible says that Jesus “became sin” for us. Adam did not become sin. He sinned. He intentionally did what he knew was wrong. For Adam to represent Christ fully then he could not have sinned; it would have to be Eve’s transgression. But we are told clearly that it was Adam transgression.

It is more accurate to say that Jesus is the second Adam who achieved what the first Adam did not. Adam was tempted and fell to temptation. Jesus was tempted and overcame temptation. Jesus as the second Adam is the correction to the how the first Adam went wrong.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
-Charles Darwin

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Re: ADAM WAS NOT DECIEVED - THE SPIRITUAL REASON WHY

Post #24

Post by Eddie Ramos »

bjs1 wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 1:34 am [Replying to Eddie Ramos in post #1]


I see at least two problems with this.

The first is that we are told that when Eve took the fruit, “She gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it” (Genesis 3:6). Adam was present when Eve was deceived. He participated in the sin and did not speak up when Eve sinned. Either he participated with Eve and he sinned, or he intentionally allowed Eve to be deceived and thereby Adam sinned (and not in a way that was for his wife).

Second, the Bible says that Jesus “became sin” for us. Adam did not become sin. He sinned. He intentionally did what he knew was wrong. For Adam to represent Christ fully then he could not have sinned; it would have to be Eve’s transgression. But we are told clearly that it was Adam transgression.

It is more accurate to say that Jesus is the second Adam who achieved what the first Adam did not. Adam was tempted and fell to temptation. Jesus was tempted and overcame temptation. Jesus as the second Adam is the correction to the how the first Adam went wrong.
Thank you for your reply. The first thing that always needs to be established, before arriving at a spiritual understanding here, is whether or not the scriptures even liken Adam to Christ, and they do.

Romans 5:14 (KJV 1900)
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.


Adam is the figure of Christ. Now, this word "figure" is most commonly translated as "example". So, we could also say that Adam was an example of Christ, and we can't dismiss this truth when we go back and look at everything we read about Adam. Like for example, how Eve (Adam's wife) was made, from Adam's bone and flesh, just like God's eternal church (the true believers).

Ephesians 5:30–32 (KJV 1900)
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. 31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.


So, in the context of a husband and his wife, God ties in the spiritual picture of Christ and his eternal church. Therefore, we can biblically conclude that because Adam is a figure of Christ and Adam was the husband of Eve, and that Eve was made the exact same way as the eternal church, then Eve is indeed a figure of the eternal church, the bride of Christ.

Genesis 2:23 (KJV 1900)
And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.


As the wife is one with her husband, so the true child of God (the bride) is one with Christ (her husband). And because the role of the husband is laid out all throughout the scriptures, we can understand now, that they first and foremost apply to Christ and then to the earthly husbands. This helps us conclude that it was Adam who told Eve what God's law was, the same way that Christ (the Word of God) tells his bride what God's law is. And just as we understand that we are not to break any of God's commands, so did Eve understand. That's why she refused to eat of it until she was deceived into disobeying God. But, if we want to follow a logic that many hold to that tells us that Adam should have stopped her, and because he didn't stope her, then he was just as guilty. Yet when we sin willingly (as Eve did), why doesn't not Christ stop us? Does that make Christ just as guilty for not stopping his bride from sinning? Of course not. But keeping in mind that Adam is a figure of Christ, when the Word of God tells us not to sin, then every opportunity to sin becomes a test for us, doesn't it? It was the same with the garden. God allowed Satan to tempt Eve in order to see (even though God already knew the outcome) who Eve would obey? And just as the Devil seeks to deceive the true children of God (the bride of Christ), so too, did it begin with the one who represented the bride of Christ, Eve.

This is why Adam's part in all this leaves many who can't see the spiritual picture here, baffled and scratching their heads, wondering why Adam did not stop her since he was with her. And since we don't know what Adam was thinking before as Eve was being tempted, we don't need to guess. All we can go by is the information which God has decided to make known. And that is that right after Eve ate, she demonstrated who she decided to obey and she sinned. Now, we can see the gospel in this account as the next thing that happens after Eve corrupted herself and sinned, that Adam (who is a figure of Christ and who also knew no sin) became sin by willingly eating as well.

Christ's punishment, like Adam's, was death. Now, if you're looking to differentiate "becoming sin" and "sinning", please do so with the scriptures. For when we do search the scriptures, we see that they are one and the same.

Isaiah 53:6 (KJV 1900)
All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned every one to his own way;
And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.


The spiritual picture of the fall is that, since Eve was guilty of sin, then her sin of disobedience (if she was an elect of God) was laid upon Christ. This means that now Christ was being punished (not for something he did not do) but for that single sin of disobedience. The same is true for everyone whose sins Christ bore. They were all laid upon Christ and he was found guilty of all those sins and paid the penalty the law of God required, which was death. Christ could not be punished by death otherwise.

Ephesians 5:25 (KJV 1900)
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;


We also have to be able to differentiate between what took place historically and what the spiritual picture actually is. Historically Adam and Eve did sin. In other words, Adam did not think to himself, "I am a picture of Christ", because we actually were not told that until thousands of years later. So, the historical account and the spiritual picture do differentiate at some point in order for the historical account to unfold. The Bible gives many examples of this. For example, the flood was a picture of God's judgment upon the whole world in the last day (our day), yet, when Noah exited the ark, after God's judgment, which was a picture of entering the new earth, he was right back in the same sin cursed world that God destroyed by water. But because the historical account still needed to unfold, the spiritual picture and the historical account, had to differentiate at some point.

2 Peter 3:3–7 (KJV 1900)
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.


Now Jesus (the second Adam) did in fact (as you stated) accomplish that which the first Adam could not accomplish historically. But does this mean that Adam was not a figure of Christ? Not at all, as the scriptures say that he indeed was.

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Re: ADAM WAS NOT DECIEVED - THE SPIRITUAL REASON WHY

Post #25

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Eddie Ramos wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 10:25 pm

The first thing that always needs to be established, before arriving at a spiritual understanding here, is whether or not the scriptures even liken Adam to Christ, and they do.

Christ is certainly likened to Adam in scripture but as has already been pointed out their paralells are not absolute meaning Christ is like Adam in some ways and the exact opposite in others. There is certainly nothing in scripture to indicate we should draw a parallel between Christ's bride class and the disloyal and disobedient Eve.
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Re: ADAM WAS NOT DECIEVED - THE SPIRITUAL REASON WHY

Post #26

Post by JehovahsWitness »

WHO IS THE BRIDE OF CHRIST?


Image


All spirit anointed born again Christians are likened metaphorically to a bride because they have to remain spiritually pure and loyal to Christ and will eventually be united with him in heaven to rule for 1,000 years over the earth's inhabitants. The same group is called "the New Jerusalem" , "the body of Christ" and "the congregation of God".





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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: ADAM WAS NOT DECIEVED - THE SPIRITUAL REASON WHY

Post #27

Post by Revelations won »

To all respondents,

After reviewing the various replies I I see some good points and some not so good. While opinions differ on this topic I suspect that there is a most important fundamental question that should be understood and answered correctly.

DID GOD THE FATHER IN ALL HIS WISDOM AND ALL KNOWING PLAN, INTEND FOR US AS HIS SPIRIT CHILDREN TO BE TRIED AND TESTED AS MORTAL BEINGS? IN OTHER WORDS IS MORTALITY A PART AND PARCEL OF HIS DIVINE PLAN?

Let's examine the evidence.

Kind regards,
RW

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Re: ADAM WAS NOT DECIEVED - THE SPIRITUAL REASON WHY

Post #28

Post by Eddie Ramos »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:26 am
Eddie Ramos wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 10:25 pm

The first thing that always needs to be established, before arriving at a spiritual understanding here, is whether or not the scriptures even liken Adam to Christ, and they do.

Christ is certainly likened to Adam in scripture but as has already been pointed out their paralells are not absolute meaning Christ is like Adam in some ways and the exact opposite in others. There is certainly nothing in scripture to indicate we should draw a parallel between Christ's bride class and the disloyal and disobedient Eve.
I showed how Eve typifies the bride of Christ in post #24. But if you're looking for a direct statement from the scriptures that state this, that's not how the scriptures have been written. Many believe that David is a type of Christ, yet there is no verse which directly states this, yet it's true because it can be searched out and the parallels can be seen by comparing scripture with scripture. Eve's disobedience reflects on everyone who is part of the bride of Christ. As a mater of fact, God uses Paul (a true believer/bride of Christ) has Paul speak as if though he is in Eve's stead. He does this to show us how each person would have done the same thing as Eve.

Romans 7:7–8 (KJV 1900)
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence (desire/lust). For without the law sin was dead.


When, in the history of the world was sin dead? It was before Adam and Eve sinned. Now, many would say that sin didn't exist before that time, but that's not what the scriptures teach. The scriptures teach that sin was dead, because the law's demand was satisfied by Christ's death before the world began.

Revelation 13:8 (KJV 1900)
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.


As we continue to search the Bible, we learn that whenever the Bible talks about Christ bearing sin, that the cross of 33 A.D. is not in view, but rather it's the point of the world's foundation. In other words, Christ died for sin before the world began, and his resurrection from the dead was the foundation of the world.

Job 38:4–7 (KJV 1900)
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth?
Declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest?
Or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened?
Or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together,
And all the sons of God shouted for joy
?


Notice how God is tying together the laying of the foundation of the earth, which was Christ atoning work, with the stars singing and the sons of God shouting for joy. Well, verse 7 is a parable which is focusing on the completion of payment for sin from the foundation of the world. Christ's atonement resulted in complete satisfaction of the law on behalf of the elect, the morning stars/ sons of God, to atone for their sins. Singing and joy identify with the victory the elect were given in Christ, from the foundation of the world, by having their sins paid for.

2 Timothy 1:9 (KJV 1900)
Who hath saved us (from our sin), and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in (meaning "through") Christ Jesus before the world began,


Once Christ made payment for our sins by becoming sin (from the foundation of the world), then the law's requirement was satisfied and then sin died. Now, when God created the world upon the foundation of Christ, he could rightfully declare that "everything was very good".

Genesis 1:31 (KJV 1900)
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

So, the question then is, when was God's law in effect? And the answer is that it was always in effect because the law represents God himself and his Word is everlasting.

Revelation 14:6 (KJV 1900)
And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,


But once Christ met the demands of the everlasting gospel, sin died, and then the world was created without sin. God then began orchestrating the unfolding of his salvation plan, but this time, with mankind there to experience it. And so, for a short time, Adam and Eve lived without the law, for God had not yet revealed it to mankind.

Then, when he did, mankind was to keep that law of not eating from the forbidden tree, but they did not keep the law. And sin, which had been put to death by Christ, revived and mankind died.

God teaches us this by using Paul (who typifies the true believers) and has Paul speak as though he is in the place of Eve. And because Adam typified Christ, Eve therefore, typified the bride of Christ (the elect).

Romans 7:8–11 (KJV 1900)
But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law **sin was dead**. 9 For I was alive without the law once (as was Adam and Eve): but when the commandment came (thou shalt not eat of it), **sin revived**(because that commandment was broken), and I (Paul) died. 10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 11 For sin (as the serpent), taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.


This is how we can know that not only did sin exist before mankind was created, but people who did not yet exist were chosen to be holy and without blame (saved) before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:3–4 (KJV 1900)
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:


So, there is indeed abundant evidence that Eve typifies the elect/bride of Christ.

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Re: ADAM WAS NOT DECIEVED - THE SPIRITUAL REASON WHY

Post #29

Post by William »

Judging Eve as being 'disloyal and disobedient' veers away from the storyline.

"Misinformed and manipulated" is the more appropriate description.

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Re: ADAM WAS NOT DECIEVED - THE SPIRITUAL REASON WHY

Post #30

Post by JehovahsWitness »

William wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 3:36 pm Judging Eve as being 'disloyal and disobedient' veers away from the storyline.

"Misinformed and manipulated" is the more appropriate description.


She certainly was misinformed and manipulated but she was judged adversley for what she did not for what others did to her. She opened herself to manipulation when she chose to believe a total stranger who had done nothing for her, over her own father who had given her everything good in her life; that was disgracefully disloyal.

Image

In the end she disobeyed a direct command, so "disobedient" a factually accurate description of Eve.




JW


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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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