If you were Satan....

[Athetotheist]

I remember a TV preacher once asking his broadcast audience, "If you were Satan....." I don't remember the rest of the question, but I seem to remember that he was talking about prophecy and arguing that Satan was up to some diabolical mischief ("If you were Satan, isn't that what you would do?").

A lot of detail in Christian scripture about what is to happen before Jesus returns is tied to the activity of "Satan". The appearance of the "antichrist", in particular, is supposed to be part of Satan's last gambit before he goes down to utter defeat.

Since it was asked of me how I would react if I were Satan, I think it's fair for me to answer. I know that "Satan" is supposed to be a being of superhuman intelligence, but I can't help thinking that if such a being actually existed and if I were that being, I could do a lot better.

If I were "Satan", I would scrap the antichrist plan. If it's all laid out in the Bible, then everyone knows what to expect and you've lost the element of surprise. With that one simple deviation from the prophetic scenario, the whole thing would be gummed up. No antichrist, no mark of the beast, no abomination of desolation, no anything I was supposed to do as Satan to set the stage for the return of Jesus. And without those prophetic components in place, Jesus couldn't return to fulfill prophecy. And how could anyone stop me? I wouldn't be taking some action which could be prevented; I would be defeating prophecy by not taking action.

So let me pass the preacher's question on to you. If you were "Satan", what would you do----or not do----to thwart prophecy?

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to The Nice Centurion in post #339

For most of this thread I worked to show you some of the complications in detail.
For me, this isnt about winning but about reasonable assumptions about how Satan thinks he can win and how in fact he can win.

I've argued strictly from what Christian theology says about "Satan's" motives, with no speculation, and you've proposed no simpler or more efficient way for him to win than I have.

[The Nice Centurion]

[Replying to The Nice Centurion in post #339

For most of this thread I worked to show you some of the complications in detail.
For me, this isnt about winning but about reasonable assumptions about how Satan thinks he can win and how in fact he can win.

I've argued strictly from what Christian theology says about "Satan's" motives, with no speculation, and you've proposed no simpler or more efficient way for him to win than I have.

Even if it all would happen your way; To thwart prophecy (for now) is not win!

And:

Satan could stay inactive forever, still;

Trinity could say; "Endtimes get served when Satey begins to work! No prophecy thwarted here!"

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to The Nice Centurion in post #339

For most of this thread I worked to show you some of the complications in detail.
For me, this isnt about winning but about reasonable assumptions about how Satan thinks he can win and how in fact he can win.

I've argued strictly from what Christian theology says about "Satan's" motives, with no speculation, and you've proposed no simpler or more efficient way for him to win than I have.

Even if it all would happen your way; To thwart prophecy (for now) is not win!

And:

Satan could stay inactive forever, still;

Trinity could say; "Endtimes get served when Satey begins to work! No prophecy thwarted here!"

When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” (Rev. 6:9-10)

Would that be forever?

[The Nice Centurion]

[Replying to The Nice Centurion in post #339

For most of this thread I worked to show you some of the complications in detail.
For me, this isnt about winning but about reasonable assumptions about how Satan thinks he can win and how in fact he can win.

I've argued strictly from what Christian theology says about "Satan's" motives, with no speculation, and you've proposed no simpler or more efficient way for him to win than I have.

Even if it all would happen your way; To thwart prophecy (for now) is not win!

And:

Satan could stay inactive forever, still;

Trinity could say; "Endtimes get served when Satey begins to work! No prophecy thwarted here!"

When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” (Rev. 6:9-10)

Would that be forever?

Your verse doesnt negate that.
Endtimes could have already happened, or happen never, or happen in a way no one suspects.

Bible scripture, and therefore bible prophecy can be bended, raped to nothing, something else and beyond recognition. It happens all the time and also in this forum.

Satan knows this, for he is no Doofus!

We need another thread to try to sniffle out Satans plans for after armageddon to further the debate here!

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to The Nice Centurion in post #344

Endtimes could have already happened

And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. (Rev. 6:11)

That "little season" hasn't ended.

or happen never

That's what I'm suggesting.

or happen in a way no one suspects.

Not in any way more easily than I've suggested.

Bible scripture, and therefore bible prophecy can be bended, raped to nothing, something else and beyond recognition.

If that were literally the case, there wouldn't be any Bible prophecy.

We need another thread to try to sniffle out Satans plans for after armageddon to further the debate here!

We don't need any new thread for anything. I've suggested a course for "Satan" instead of armageddon, and any speculation about what he would want after that is an irrelevant distraction on your part.

You've suggested some reading material for me; here's some for you to consider:

viewtopic.php?t=39503

[The Nice Centurion]

[Replying to The Nice Centurion in post #344

Endtimes could have already happened

And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. (Rev. 6:11)

That "little season" hasn't ended.

So enjoy it while it lasts.

or happen never

That's what I'm suggesting.

Suggestions wont bring down the bible.

or happen in a way no one suspects.

Not in any way more easily than I've suggested.

Inactivity would trigger exacly that: Nothing.
Would Alexander the Great have conquered Darius empyre by inactivity?

Bible scripture, and therefore bible prophecy can be bended, raped to nothing, something else and beyond recognition.

If that were literally the case, there wouldn't be any Bible prophecy.

But it is and there is, so you are wrong.

We need another thread to try to sniffle out Satans plans for after armageddon to further the debate here!

We don't need any new thread for anything. I've suggested a course for "Satan" instead of armageddon, and any speculation about what he would want after that is an irrelevant distraction on your part.

Of course to know what one intends to do with a win, should give pretty good clues about how he goes at it.

Lucky for you that I found my old Thread:
Armageddon is over and Satan has won ! What happens now ?
viewtopic.php?t=16853

So what happens from now on? Has Satan even read the biblical revelation where he is supposed to lose before? And if so is he surprised himself that he proved prophetic scripture wrong and won Armageddon
Will he rule instead of Christ for the next 1000 years or has he other plans

We shoud start by finding out what bible version Satan reads! Do you think we can safely assume that he prefers the original KJV? That would be my first guess!
Also I presume that he is a real fan of Jack Chicks tracts. At last of the ones where he has appearances!

You've suggested some reading material for me; here's some for you to consider:

viewtopic.php?t=39503

Yeah, my thanks. But here is not about winning ourselves. We both want to find a way for Satan to win.

But I believe he has to win the battle of armageddon to make it a true win.

It is unbiblical from you to expect it by other means.

Perhaps you and Satan should study together the KJV. Or if that cant be arranged, he should be nice enough to borrow his copy.
(If the mormons are right though, Satan reads the Joseph Smith bible, which is the KJV restored by Joseph Smith. Therein Joseph Smith puts also into genesis that he is greatest prophet of all time!)

Just dont tell Satan that you dont believe he exists. It might upset him, or worse he might suspect a trick from you, for you not to have to return his book to a non-existence.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to The Nice Centurion in post #346

Inactivity would trigger exacly that: Nothing.

Inactivity wouldn't have to trigger anything; that's the point. It would prevent something from happening by not providing a trigger.

Would Alexander the Great have conquered Darius empyre by inactivity?

False analogy. Alexander wasn't trying to nullify a prophecy of his defeat.

Of course to know what one intends to do with a win, should give pretty good clues about how he goes at it.

We get the character's intentions for victory from his description, which need not be hinted at by his strategy. Ever hear of the Trojan Horse?

Lucky for you that I found my old Thread:
Armageddon is over and Satan has won ! What happens now ?

That thread presents an entirely different scenario which has no bearing on mine.

We both want to find a way for Satan to win.

I already have.

Not that I want to find a way; I'm just pointing out that it's there.

But I believe he has to win the battle of armageddon to make it a true win.

It is unbiblical from you to expect it by other means.

If "Satan" is the ultimate rebel, what qualm would he have with being unbiblical?

Perhaps you and Satan should study together the KJV. Or if that cant be arranged, he should be nice enough to borrow his copy.
(If the mormons are right though, Satan reads the Joseph Smith bible, which is the KJV restored by Joseph Smith. Therein Joseph Smith puts also into genesis that he is greatest prophet of all time!)

Just dont tell Satan that you dont believe he exists. It might upset him, or worse he might suspect a trick from you, for you not to have to return his book to a non-existence.

This appeal to ridicule is another pointless distraction and a further indication that you have nothing solid to present against my proposition.

[Joseppi]

What must Satan do now? …given the Devil’s dilemma now that Jesus Christ sits on the right hand of God?

He must prevent the return of Jesus Christ.

It seems to me that such an interdiction can only occur if faith in Jesus Christ is removed from the earth at the time of his return.

This is the Devil’s motivation, that forces him to do what the scripture requires him to do.

It derives from noting that when Jesus departed the temple of the Jews he promised not to return until all Israel has faith to say, Blessed is Jesus Christ of Nazareth that comes in the name of the LORD.

To prevent the salvation of the remnant of Israel at the time of the end Satan must insure that faith is removed from the earth. To do so demands the death of all Christians as well as all descendants of Abraham, Esau and Jacob on earth.

Thus by brute logic the mark of the beast must be implemented as described by Jesus.

When the Son of man returns shall he find faith on earth?
Yes.

[Tcg]

When the Son of man returns shall he find faith on earth?
Yes.

The way things are going, if Jesus ever gets around to returning, he may find a planet devoid of human life. Of course, maybe paramecium will believe in him. That's faith of some sort.


Tcg

[Miles]

What must Satan do now? …given the Devil’s dilemma now that Jesus Christ sits on the right hand of God?

What dilemma is that?

He must prevent the return of Jesus Christ.

At which he seems to be doing a hell of a job. Two thousand years and so far no J. C..

It seems to me that such an interdiction can only occur if faith in Jesus Christ is removed from the earth at the time of his return.

Why? As it stands Satan seems to be doing quite alright as it is. Nothing has changed Armageddon-wise since Jesus got his promised return wrong some two thousand years ago.

Matthew 24:27-29 (ESV)
27 For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.

The Coming of the Son of Man

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The Lesson of the Fig Tree

32 “From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. 34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away."

This is the Devil’s motivation, that forces him to do what the scripture requires him to do.

What motivation are you referring to?

When the Son of man returns shall he find faith on earth?
Yes.

As Tcg points out, the way things are going there's a good chance Jesus will have blown his opportunity to do anything for anyone.

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