Scientific thinking and common sense

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

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Eloi
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Scientific thinking and common sense

Post #1

Post by Eloi »

I have noticed that sometimes people with a scientific mind, people who have studied a lot and know a lot of information about different sciences, do not notice simple things that do not escape the attention of ordinary people, even if they have studied less or almost nothing.

For example, the fact that the animals that evolutionists call "lower" in the evolutionary scale still live alongside humans, and that others supposedly fitter, because they are located in a higher position in the evolutionary line of man, no longer exist.

Evolutionary theory holds that as animals progressed up the evolutionary scale, they became more capable of surviving. Why, then, is the “inferior” ape family still in existence, but not a single one of the presumed intermediate forms, which were supposed to be more advanced in evolution? Today we see chimpanzees, gorillas and orangutans, but no “ape-men.” Does it seem likely that every one of the more recent and supposedly more advanced “links” between apelike creatures and modern man should have become extinct, but not the lower apes? https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101985017

To what extent do you think the "wisdom" of this system of things can cloud a person's mind?

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JoeyKnothead
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Re: Scientific thinking and common sense

Post #171

Post by JoeyKnothead »

The Barbarian wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:47 pm
Eloi wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 3:00 pm ...
they became more capable of surviving. Why, then, is the “inferior” ape family still in existence
Apes are rather well-fitted for the environments in which they evolved. Problem for them is those environments are shrinking.
As long as there's humans, the apes will've survived.

I don't understand why creationists get this so wrong.
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Re: Scientific thinking and common sense

Post #172

Post by The Barbarian »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:17 pm
The Barbarian wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:47 pm
Eloi wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 3:00 pm ...
they became more capable of surviving. Why, then, is the “inferior” ape family still in existence
Apes are rather well-fitted for the environments in which they evolved. Problem for them is those environments are shrinking.
As long as there's humans, the apes will've survived.

I don't understand why creationists get this so wrong.
This is true. For some reason there are people who aren't offended if we come directly from dirt, but get all unglued if it we have come from one of the most intelligent of living things.

I don't get it.

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Re: Scientific thinking and common sense

Post #173

Post by Tcg »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:17 pm
As long as there's humans, the apes will've survived.

I don't understand why creationists get this so wrong.
Yes, and oddly enough it seems that our so called sucess is the reason many of our fellow apes ain't doing so well. In fact, it's even why we aren't doing so well. We may be on the verge of extincting ourselves. I sometimes wonder about what will happen once we do go extinct. We've destroyed so many other species that we may have changed permanently, or at least for a very long time, many outcomes that may have been possible if we weren't so destructive.


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Re: Scientific thinking and common sense

Post #174

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Tcg wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 5:07 pm
JoeyKnothead wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:17 pm
As long as there's humans, the apes will've survived.

I don't understand why creationists get this so wrong.
Yes, and oddly enough it seems that our so called sucess is the reason many of our fellow apes ain't doing so well. In fact, it's even why we aren't doing so well. We may be on the verge of extincting ourselves. I sometimes wonder about what will happen once we do go extinct. We've destroyed so many other species that we may have changed permanently, or at least for a very long time, many outcomes that may have been possible if we weren't so destructive.


Tcg
Well said. We've altered so many trajectories it's almost too sad to contemplate. From 'quiet' rattlesnakes to tuskless elephants, we've done a horrible job as stewards of this planet.
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Re: Scientific thinking and common sense

Post #175

Post by William »

Doom and Gloom aside, there have been at least six extinction events already since life first started wriggling and jiggling on this planet.

Mother Earth always appears to bounce back and try different things...The loss of humans isn;t a foregone conclusion, nor for that matter the lose of any other lifeforms - we have science after all...and the revenue that science brings to those invested init.

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Re: Scientific thinking and common sense

Post #176

Post by JoeyKnothead »

William wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 7:04 pm Doom and Gloom aside, there have been at least six extinction events already since life first started wriggling and jiggling on this planet.

Mother Earth always appears to bounce back and try different things...The loss of humans isn;t a foregone conclusion, nor for that matter the lose of any other lifeforms - we have science after all...and the revenue that science brings to those invested init.
"Life, uh, finds a way."
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Re: Scientific thinking and common sense

Post #177

Post by Tcg »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 6:59 pm
Tcg wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 5:07 pm
JoeyKnothead wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:17 pm
As long as there's humans, the apes will've survived.

I don't understand why creationists get this so wrong.
Yes, and oddly enough it seems that our so called sucess is the reason many of our fellow apes ain't doing so well. In fact, it's even why we aren't doing so well. We may be on the verge of extincting ourselves. I sometimes wonder about what will happen once we do go extinct. We've destroyed so many other species that we may have changed permanently, or at least for a very long time, many outcomes that may have been possible if we weren't so destructive.


Tcg
Well said. We've altered so many trajectories it's almost too sad to contemplate. From 'quiet' rattlesnakes to tuskless elephants, we've done a horrible job as stewards of this planet.
Indeed. If there were a nefarious super something or rather that wanted to destroy us and other life on our blue jewel, they may lead us to do exactly what we are doing. I'm not suggesting there is super something or other, but our sucess would be an effective method to achieve this.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: Scientific thinking and common sense

Post #178

Post by DrNoGods »

[Replying to Tcg in post #173]
Yes, and oddly enough it seems that our so called sucess is the reason many of our fellow apes ain't doing so well. In fact, it's even why we aren't doing so well. We may be on the verge of extincting ourselves. I sometimes wonder about what will happen once we do go extinct. We've destroyed so many other species that we may have changed permanently, or at least for a very long time, many outcomes that may have been possible if we weren't so destructive.
And we've managed to do this in only 0.00026% of the time Earth has been a planet (generously starting at the Neolithic around 12,000 years ago ... but a far lower percentage than that if you start at the industrial revolution when we really got going at it). If we do manage to eliminate ourselves in the next few thousand years (or much less) the planet will likely hardly notice it in the long run with erosion, tectonic plate movement, etc. eventually wiping out evidence of our existence apart from whatever fossils and fragments of our activities might remain for any potential future intelligent life to find and ponder.
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Re: Scientific thinking and common sense

Post #179

Post by Tcg »

William wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 7:04 pm Doom and Gloom aside...
It's neither Doom nor Gloom. It's facing reality and that is never a problem unless one wants to deny it. We should recognize that what we have now is rare and fleeting. We should enjoy life now because it isn't going to last long. It's not an eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we die attitude. Sure, we should eat, we should drink, we should be merry, but we should do so in a manner that allows others (both fellow humans and others alike) to also eat drink and be merry. Humans seem to be particularly unskilled at this. Sure, the earth is going to be just fine without us. But we shouldn't be just fine without the others (including fellow humans) we are doing away with.

Sadly, it just may be that we are too far down the road of destroying our rare planet that we can't put the car in reverse. Not a fatalistic sentiment, we should try, but maybe it's too late. Again, that's just facing a realistic possibility. Anyone should be able to contemplate it.


Tcg
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- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: Scientific thinking and common sense

Post #180

Post by William »

There have been at least six extinction events already since life first started wriggling and jiggling on this planet.

Mother Earth always appears to bounce back and try different things...The loss of humans isn't a foregone conclusion, nor for that matter the lose of any other lifeforms - we have science after all...and the revenue that science brings to those invested init.

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