Who Was 1 John Written To...

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Peterlag
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Who Was 1 John Written To...

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John is warning believers that some had infiltrated the Church with the false doctrine of Gnosticism. He addresses both genuine Christians and Gnostics in the same letter. The Gnostics claimed that a truly enlightened man would have a superior spiritual knowledge. In fact, the word "gnosis" means "to know." They taught an enlightened man would realize all matter is evil and man is spirit and pure because what is spirit is not matter. They argued that Jesus was a phantom and did not die on the cross since you cannot kill a spirit. John responds with "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen, with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, the Word of life." John has made it clear that Jesus was no phantom spirit. He was real, and he was flesh, and he died on that cross for our sins.

John then transitions into dealing with the Gnostic doctrine of sin that claimed sin could not permeate spirit and so they could sin with impunity since sin could not taint their spirit. One of their favorite illustrations was an image of a ring of pure gold that was embedded in a pile of dung. They pointed out that the ring, although surrounded by dung, still remains pure. The dung does not permeate the ring in any way whatsoever. Thus, they argued sin cannot defile the spirit. The Gnostics saw themselves as enlightened and as possessing a superior higher knowledge, and John was disdained by this group. Many claimed they knew God, abided in Christ, and were in the light.

In verse six, John exposes the false doctrine of the Gnostic infiltrators. They claimed the truth was they could walk in darkness and continue to fellowship with God. John counters the Gnostic heresy in verse seven by stating the true Christian doctrine. He says that only if they walk in the light as God is in the light. Then and only then can the blood of Jesus Christ cleanse them from all sin. In verse eight, John claims that they are deceived in thinking they had no sin for the blood of Jesus Christ to cleanse away. John then states the remedy to their error by telling them God will forgive if they confess their sins. He also continues on to talk about the removal of sin in their lives by asserting that along with this forgiveness, God will cleanse them from ALL unrighteousness.

Verse ten states that if we do not feel that we have sins to be cleansed of, because we do not believe we ever sinned, then we would be calling God a liar. The Apostle John is fighting against the error of Gnosticism and not legalism. Nothing within this context would give us the warrant to believe John's words in verses eight and ten are to Christians. Scripture never contradicts Scripture. This is the basic law of hermeneutics. This principle must be even more so if we compare the work of one writer. The most solid proof that John is not saying that Christians sin is contained within this very letter. In verse 7 John tells us that Christians are cleansed from all sin. If ALL SIN is cleansed, how can there be anything left? In Chapter 2:1 he states the purpose of his letter "My little children, these things write I unto you, that you sin not."

This is plain on its own, but the Greek says "that you may not have a sin once." In chapter 3:8-9 we are told plainly that "he who sins is of the devil" and "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin." To make verse 1:8 say that John admitted sin in Christians and himself while he claimed to be walking in the light is to make him the most self-contradictory writer to be found in all of secular and sacred writing! How can one say we must sin because we are saved, but then we are not saved if we do violate the commandments of Christ (2:4). That we can be of the devil and of the Lord at the same time. "If we say we have no sin" is referring to an unregenerate person who declares they have no sin to be forgiven and therefore no guilt to wash away. It was the Gnostic belief that they had no sin.

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Re: Who Was 1 John Written To...

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Peterlag wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 10:48 am John is warning believers that some had infiltrated the Church with the false doctrine of Gnosticism. He addresses both genuine Christians and Gnostics in the same letter. The Gnostics claimed that a truly enlightened man would have a superior spiritual knowledge. In fact, the word "gnosis" means "to know." They taught an enlightened man would realize all matter is evil and man is spirit and pure because what is spirit is not matter. They argued that Jesus was a phantom and did not die on the cross since you cannot kill a spirit. John responds with "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen, with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, the Word of life." John has made it clear that Jesus was no phantom spirit. He was real, and he was flesh, and he died on that cross for our sins.

John then transitions into dealing with the Gnostic doctrine of sin that claimed sin could not permeate spirit and so they could sin with impunity since sin could not taint their spirit. One of their favorite illustrations was an image of a ring of pure gold that was embedded in a pile of dung. They pointed out that the ring, although surrounded by dung, still remains pure. The dung does not permeate the ring in any way whatsoever. Thus, they argued sin cannot defile the spirit. The Gnostics saw themselves as enlightened and as possessing a superior higher knowledge, and John was disdained by this group. Many claimed they knew God, abided in Christ, and were in the light.

In verse six, John exposes the false doctrine of the Gnostic infiltrators. They claimed the truth was they could walk in darkness and continue to fellowship with God. John counters the Gnostic heresy in verse seven by stating the true Christian doctrine. He says that only if they walk in the light as God is in the light. Then and only then can the blood of Jesus Christ cleanse them from all sin. In verse eight, John claims that they are deceived in thinking they had no sin for the blood of Jesus Christ to cleanse away. John then states the remedy to their error by telling them God will forgive if they confess their sins. He also continues on to talk about the removal of sin in their lives by asserting that along with this forgiveness, God will cleanse them from ALL unrighteousness.

Verse ten states that if we do not feel that we have sins to be cleansed of, because we do not believe we ever sinned, then we would be calling God a liar. The Apostle John is fighting against the error of Gnosticism and not legalism. Nothing within this context would give us the warrant to believe John's words in verses eight and ten are to Christians. Scripture never contradicts Scripture. This is the basic law of hermeneutics. This principle must be even more so if we compare the work of one writer. The most solid proof that John is not saying that Christians sin is contained within this very letter. In verse 7 John tells us that Christians are cleansed from all sin. If ALL SIN is cleansed, how can there be anything left? In Chapter 2:1 he states the purpose of his letter "My little children, these things write I unto you, that you sin not."

This is plain on its own, but the Greek says "that you may not have a sin once." In chapter 3:8-9 we are told plainly that "he who sins is of the devil" and "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin." To make verse 1:8 say that John admitted sin in Christians and himself while he claimed to be walking in the light is to make him the most self-contradictory writer to be found in all of secular and sacred writing! How can one say we must sin because we are saved, but then we are not saved if we do violate the commandments of Christ (2:4). That we can be of the devil and of the Lord at the same time. "If we say we have no sin" is referring to an unregenerate person who declares they have no sin to be forgiven and therefore no guilt to wash away. It was the Gnostic belief that they had no sin.
Hello....... although you answered your thread-title question in the second sentence of your OP, he was writing to both believers and gnostics, I was interested to read on further and beyond the question which you asked I looked for any references to Jesus ........ there was none, the only part of Jesus which was mentioned was his blood.

And so I went to read 1 John throughout to see if this author had anything to say about Jesus himself, and the only mention that I found in all three letters from John was that Jesus 'commanded' that followers all love each other. That was it!

I know that these points are to one side of your question, but since you did answer it (John wrote to believers and gnostics) I hope you don't mind me pointing out that neither John's nor Paul's letters include a sentence about anything that Jesus said or did in life apart from during those last hours on that Friday, and telling followers to love each other and (a JW has told me) that Paul mentioned Jesus's words about giving/receiving. That's it. It's almost as if the life of Jesus was unnecessary information.

I feel sure that Jesus would not have agreed that anybody can redeem folks from sin.....he believed in the old laws that were written for the provision of a safe, secure, healthy, fast growing, cohesive and successful people, each and every one. Breaking these laws simply lead to sickness and failure. Somehow Christianity threw most of that away, I think.

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Re: Who Was 1 John Written To...

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Post by Peterlag »

[Replying to oldbadger in post #2]

I write a whole lot about what Jesus became in a paper that you can look at here... www.carb-fat.com/jesus.html

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Re: Who Was 1 John Written To...

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Post by William »

John is warning believers that some had infiltrated the Church with the false doctrine of Gnosticism. He addresses both genuine Christians and Gnostics in the same letter. The Gnostics claimed that a truly enlightened man would have a superior spiritual knowledge. In fact, the word "gnosis" means "to know." They taught an enlightened man would realize all matter is evil and man is spirit and pure because what is spirit is not matter.
I think Gnosticism has a point in that the 'evil' of matter separates humans from the direct knowledge of who they are as Spiritual Beings.

Clothing ones self in matter has an evil effect on the Spiritual Being incarnate, as it is noted that if one were to observe the physical Universe from outside of it, one would see no evil unless one were to also observe evidence of Consciousness [Spiritual Being] within it and see that the consciousness is behaving evilly and even that it tries to correct its behavior, it cannot escape being evil or acting with evil intent, which is 'bad' for the image of divinity/spiritual beings.

That may be why Gnostics generally regard the God of the Bible as an evil Demiurge - an imposter playing the role of a substitute to the 'real GOD' which those captured within the physical universe are unable to see through as being an imposter.

I think it possible that the universe was created so that Spirit Entities could experience it, somewhat in the same manner as we create VRs in order to experience those - only the VRs which the gods [spirit entities] make, deliver way more realistic simulations than we are currently able to create with our computers.

It is possible that this Universe was specifically created to imprison wayward Spirit-Entities - still as a VR - essentially imprisoning their minds [consciousnesses] within it, and it being designed in such a way as it is almost impossible to discover that this is the truth of the situation.
The design ensures that no one individual has any memory of a prior existence.
This itself means that we also have no memory of any crime we might have committed which got us sentenced and cast into this particular reality experience.

I veer away from demonizing the administrator of the prison [The Demiurge as the Gnostics call YHWH] as it appears to be unhelpful to do so.
YHWH is mostly quiet, but there have been instances where he has been attributed with offering us inmates ways and means of - not escaping our sentence, but learning from it and changing our evil ways...

In relation to human-made prisons, the prisoners generally know why they are being held in custody but in our case, we are incased within a rather small body, and our prison overall [The Universe] is immeasurably large and even our planet is so large that it is difficult to even equate it with being a prison.

Unless one learns the ways of the mystic and accepts that one is really an Eternal Spirit - then one is better equipped to understand the universe as some type of temporary prison to hold Spirit Entities within...

I think that perhaps Gnostics think that way in judgment of the members of the Abrahamic religions who appear weak and ineffective and totally lacking realization that they exist within a prison and that their God is the Dungeon-Master...and that they have the power [at least] to make the prison a better environment to experience, but prefer to wait until Jesus returns and does it for them, which I think the Gnostics believe was the reason Jesus came along - to tell people to build it for themselves [The Fathers Kingdom on Earth] but the message was highjacked and turned into a belief in the second coming.

Of course, that understanding doesn't fit with the Gnostic belief that all things physical in nature are 'evil' but there is no clear-cut one size fits all Gnosticism...there are a broad range of beliefs involved...

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Re: Who Was 1 John Written To...

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Peterlag wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:05 pm [Replying to oldbadger in post #2]

I write a whole lot about what Jesus became in a paper that you can look at here... www.carb-fat.com/jesus.html
What Jesus became? In the minds of humans Jesus could become anything, as far and wide as their imaginations could wander.
But in my opinion Jesus was a working man who picked up the Baptist's movement against outrageous Temple corruption, greed and hypocrisy, carried it on after the Baptist was imprisoned, for about a year, and then was gone.

The author/s of G-John did have a mass of information about Jesus but had no idea when anything happened, didn't even know what Jesus was doing in Jerusalem during that last week..... many Christians follow G-John's account so closely that they cannot answer simple questions like 'What did Jesus do in the Temple of Palm Sunday' because they never really studied other gospels.

Many anecdotes in G-John are very valuable but I don't take too much notice of more in it.

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Re: Who Was 1 John Written To...

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Post by Peterlag »

[Replying to oldbadger in post #5]

There are clear verses that say exactly what Jesus became such as that God hath highly exalted him and made him both Lord and Christ.

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Re: Who Was 1 John Written To...

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Peterlag wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 8:56 pm
There are clear verses that say exactly what Jesus became such as that God hath highly exalted him and made him both Lord and Christ.
I know, but absolutely no mentions of anything that Jesus ever said or did before that last day....... or month..... and in G-John the people plotting against him and wanting to bring him down and kill him turned from being the hypocritical and corrupted Priesthood in to....... the Jews! What an outrageous lie that was, eh? And Paul wasn't sympathetic towards them at all. No wonder Cephas got somebody to write the true story.

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Re: Who Was 1 John Written To...

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[Replying to oldbadger in post #7]

I don't write about Jesus. The one that walked the earth before they killed him. I write about the resurrected Christ.

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Re: Who Was 1 John Written To...

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Peterlag wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:53 pm [Replying to oldbadger in post #7]

I don't write about Jesus. The one that walked the earth before they killed him. I write about the resurrected Christ.
I accept that absolutely. Lots of Christians don't know much about Jesus-on-earth.
If I wanted to know something about 'Jesus-on-earth' I might get a best-result from such as @Transponder.

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