Was there ever a time when the Earth existed, and the Sun didn't?

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Was there ever a time when the Earth existed, and the Sun didn't?

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Post by Tcg »

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The first creation story found in Genesis 1 starts with the creation of the heavens and the earth. Sometime later the sun was reportedly created. Is this possible?

Was there ever a time when the earth existed, and the sun didn't?


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Re: Was there ever a time when the Earth existed, and the Sun didn't?

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Post by Miles »

Tcg wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:25 am .
The first creation story found in Genesis 1 starts with the creation of the heavens and the earth. Sometime later the sun was reportedly created. Is this possible?

Was there ever a time when the earth existed, and the sun didn't?
They formed somewhat at the same time, with the Sun taking it's present form before the Earth finished forming.

"The Earth is formed out of debris around the solar protoplanetary disk. A protoplanetary disk is a rotating circumstellar disc of dense gas and dust surrounding a young newly formed star, a T Tauri star, or Herbig Ae/Be star."
Source:Wikipedia

"When the solar system settled into its current layout about 4.5 billion years ago, Earth formed when gravity pulled swirling gas and dust in to become the third planet from the Sun. Like its fellow terrestrial planets, Earth has a central core, a rocky mantle, and a solid crust."
source

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Re: Was there ever a time when the Earth existed, and the Sun didn't?

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The Bible does not say that God created the sun after he created earth. He says “let the light be”. It’s dark on the surface of the waters because the light of the universe is not able to come through the atmosphere of planet earth to penetrate to the waters. https://www.explainchristianity.com/doe ... -creation/

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Re: Was there ever a time when the Earth existed, and the Sun didn't?

Post #4

Post by TRANSPONDER »

christian001 wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:10 am The Bible does not say that God created the sun after he created earth. He says “let the light be”. It’s dark on the surface of the waters because the light of the universe is not able to come through the atmosphere of planet earth to penetrate to the waters. https://www.explainchristianity.com/doe ... -creation/
The problem there is that you are describing what a person would see on the surface of the earth and nobody was there. So (aside from human guesswork) it can only be God showing the writer how it happened. And why wouldn't He show Moses what really happened rather than misleading him? Christians would simply go along with God made the universe out of dust, and out of that many suns, each with the earth and moon, and the earth was deluged with water until the dry land became livable, and the Lord made the things of the sea, the plants and the creeping things to come onto the land, and then the animals that included the clean, the sheep, the goats and the cows. And, at the last, he made man, with woman also, to keep him in order".

Why wouldn't Believers roll with that? And in time it would turn out to be confirmed with science, not refuted by it. There would be no disagreement between Creationism and science, and no need to fiddle Bibletext to try to make it fit with the science.

But I'll give you an Out, though I doubt any Bible Believers would like it. There is the writer of Genesis and he is waiting for inspiration. So God cometheth into his head and shews forth all that happened, or rather didn't but God shows him a story which will inspire His People in the right direction. He shewed Moses a creation which would be familiar to him, since the Egyptian and Babylonian accounts were not unlike.

And the Lord shewed unto Moses the whole Eden nonsense to explain the whole Rule and Law about sin that God had made up as part of His plan, and...you'll love this bit....He put into Moses' head the Flood and Ark and all life wiped out and had to repopulate the globe (of course, the Bible will say Plainly that the earth is round and goeth around the sun) in a mere thousand years. So that explains why Genesis is God's word while mot actually being right, according to science.

And you don't even have to come up with unfeasible cloud cover theories to try to wangle Genesis to fit in with Science

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Re: Was there ever a time when the Earth existed, and the Sun didn't?

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Post by Tcg »

christian001 wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:10 am The Bible does not say that God created the sun after he created earth. He says “let the light be”. It’s dark on the surface of the waters because the light of the universe is not able to come through the atmosphere of planet earth to penetrate to the waters. https://www.explainchristianity.com/doe ... -creation/
Of course, it does. The light you are referring to was reportedly created of the first day. Oddly enough, the sun wasn't created until the fourth day.


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Re: Was there ever a time when the Earth existed, and the Sun didn't?

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Post by Clownboat »

christian001 wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:10 am The Bible does not say that God created the sun after he created earth. He says “let the light be”.
It is said, "let their be light in the Bible".
It’s dark on the surface of the waters because the light of the universe is not able to come through the atmosphere of planet earth to penetrate to the waters.
Now I must ask what Bible you are refering to as a god never mentiones this in a Holy Book that I'm aware of.

What do you mean by 'surface of the waters' and what is this 'light of the universe' you mention and why couldn't it penetrate the atmosphere and how on earth could you begin to pretend to know such things?

It seems to me that these are human additions. Why would humans make such claims on behalf of the gods and how can they justify doing so?
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Re: Was there ever a time when the Earth existed, and the Sun didn't?

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Post by Miles »

christian001 wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:10 am The Bible does not say that God created the sun after he created earth. He says “let the light be”. It’s dark on the surface of the waters because the light of the universe is not able to come through the atmosphere of planet earth to penetrate to the waters. https://www.explainchristianity.com/doe ... -creation/
Other than creationist Hugh Ross, whom you quote here, who else has ever propounded this meteorological fantasy as fact? No one. But as with so many creationists in search of explanations to Biblical absurdities, this one comes down to, "Hey, maybe here's how it might have happened. Yeah, so lets say it did." So:

CREATIONIST FACT # 344: is born.
................It's dark on the surface of the waters because the light of the universe is not able to come through ................the atmosphere of planet earth to penetrate to the waters."


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Re: Was there ever a time when the Earth existed, and the Sun didn't?

Post #8

Post by Diogenes »

christian001 wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:10 am The Bible does not say that God created the sun after he created earth. He says “let the light be”. It’s dark on the surface of the waters because the light of the universe is not able to come through the atmosphere of planet earth to penetrate to the waters. https://www.explainchristianity.com/doe ... -creation/
Yes, there are "answers" in Genesis, and they are wrong. We have the 'light' days before the Sun is made. This is just silly. We know the Sun with it's tremendous gravity probably came first, to attract the matter that would make the planets, or at the least at the same time as part of the solar mass. Let's review the description in Genesis:
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

6 And God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7 And God made the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so. 8 And God called the expanse Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.

9 And God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.

11 And God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth.” And it was so. 12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so. 16 And God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars. 17 And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening and there was morning, the fourth day.
So, Genesis claims the Sun was created days after the light and days after the Earth, as Tcg [aka 'The Dude'] pointed out, then goes on to have plants growing before the Sun appears. :) It also claims the moon is a source of light. We know of course, that it is not. It merely reflects light, as does the Earth. The Bible would have us believe the waters came first, then the dry land. The opposite is true, with water forming on the surface a billion or so years later.
There is also geological evidence that helps constrain the time frame for liquid water existing on Earth. A sample of pillow basalt (a type of rock formed during an underwater eruption) was recovered from the Isua Greenstone Belt and provides evidence that water existed on Earth 3.8 billion years ago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_water_on_Earth

There is a reason apologists have to resort to oddball creationists for their 'science' information. Hugh Ross of "explainchristianity.com" is an astronomer and not an expert on either biology or geology, nonetheless he disagrees with the science of evolution, despite that not being his field. Other Christian creation groups disagree with him, in part because at least he does agree the Earth is billions of years old, not 6000 as Genesis claims. https://www.icr.org/article/dubious-apo ... -hugh-ross
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Re: Was there ever a time when the Earth existed, and the Sun didn't?

Post #9

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Tcg wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:25 am ...Sometime later the sun was reportedly created.
There is no verse in the book of Genesis that says when God created the sun; the only words that are in the text is "let there be light" which is very much open to interpretation.


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Re: Was there ever a time when the Earth existed, and the Sun didn't?

Post #10

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 5:49 pm
Tcg wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:25 am ...Sometime later the sun was reportedly created.
There is no verse in the book of Genesis that says when God created the sun; the only words that are in the text is "let there be light" which is very much open to interpretation.
Well, the Bible says it was the fourth day. Check it out.

Moreover, the Amplified Bible does identify one of the lights he created as the Sun in Genesis 1:14

Genesis 1:14
Then God said, “Let there be light-bearers (sun, moon, stars) in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be useful for signs (tokens) [of God’s provident care], and for marking seasons, days, and years;

As does the ERV Bible

Genesis 1:14
The Fourth Day—Sun, Moon, and Stars
14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the sky. These lights will separate the days from the nights. They will be used for signs to show when special meetings[a] begin and to show the days and years.

And sheer common sense would conclude that these lights that separate the days from the nights would be the Sun, Moon, and Stars, unless, that is, you have some other candidate in mind.

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Last edited by Miles on Wed Aug 31, 2022 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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