Is this an Accurate and Easily understood definition of Atheism?

[Tcg]

.
I recently heard this definition of atheism:

"Atheism is the condition of not believing that a God or deity exists."

I think it is clearer than the one I usually espouse which is that atheism is the lack of belief in god/gods. The only issue I have with is its singular nature. Perhaps, Atheism is the condition of not believing that any gods or deities exist, would be better.

Is this a good definition?


Tcg

[William]

[Replying to Kylie in post #340]

So you just avoid the issue.

Naturally so, as there is no point in defining "GOD" - let alone believing in or lacking belief in - until I know whether I exist within a created simulation or simply a fortunate accident.

There's no point in trying to have a discussion with you, is there?

Not if it means you cannot accept that I am neither atheist or theist. What is there to discuss?

[Kylie]

[Replying to Kylie in post #340]

So you just avoid the issue.

Naturally so, as there is no point in defining "GOD" - let alone believing in or lacking belief in - until I know whether I exist within a created simulation or simply a fortunate accident.

I am happy to leave it to people to define God in whatever way works best for them. As I have stated many times already, the method I'm proposing is nothing more than for different people to self-describe their own viewpoints. It is not my place to define things for them. I'm not going to tell them, "You MUST define God in this way," or, "You MUST define knowledge in this way."

So I'll ask you again:

When it comes to belief that God exists (using whatever definition of God you feel is best suited to your beliefs), do you have such a belief or do you lack that belief?

There's no point in trying to have a discussion with you, is there?

Not if it means you cannot accept that I am neither atheist or theist. What is there to discuss?

I just asked a simple question. You decided to make it complicated by assuming I had to mean one specific definition of God.

[oldbadger]

Not if it means you cannot accept that I am neither atheist or theist. What is there to discuss?

Hi......... your sentence, above, pushes me to ask:-
Are you an agnostic? I presume that an agnostic can be neither theist nor atheist.

[TRANSPONDER]

Not if it means you cannot accept that I am neither atheist or theist. What is there to discuss?

Hi......... your sentence, above, pushes me to ask:-
Are you an agnostic? I presume that an agnostic can be neither theist nor atheist.

Is this ever going to end? When is the message ever going to get out that agnostic does not mean "Someone who doesn't know whether they believe in God or not". We say time an again: "Agnostic means we don't know whether a god exists or not, Theism or atheism means that - based on that non knowledge (a- gnostic) one believes the God -claim or not "Clear?"

"Oh yes, got it, no problem.'

"Good."

"So if I don't know whether to believe or not, I'm agnostic?"

"No, no...."

[oldbadger]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #344]

Hi T.
Words tend to mean what people thi.k that they mean, and I reckon the average answers around here would plump for ' agnostic means dunno.'

That might hurt but even a word like 'sick' can mean 'brilliant' ....!

Two kids watching a V8 Stingray roar past.... 'Wow! Well sick!'

[TRANSPONDER]

Yes, you are right. We can't help what people think it means. And it wouldn't matter if theist apologists didn't use the wrong meaning to argue that atheism is illogical (or a Faith', or doesn't exist) when use of the correct meaning shows that not believing is a logical response to not knowing and it is theism, believing what they do not know) that is illogical.

[Tcg]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #344]

Hi T.
Words tend to mean what people thi.k that they mean, and I reckon the average answers around here would plump for ' agnostic means dunno.'

I'd guess that the split around here is 60/40 with the 60 going for something like we don't know or can't know.

That might hurt but even a word like 'sick' can mean 'brilliant' ....!

Two kids watching a V8 Stingray roar past.... 'Wow! Well sick!'

This reminds me of when I first moved to Bucks County, PA as a junior higher. A jacked up '55 Chevy drove by, and some of my new friends said, "decent!" I was confused because I thought it was a very cool car. I later learned that in that little spot of the world, "decent" meant "very cool."

The meaning of words and phrases can indeed drift. Just as with the words atheist and agnostic. I could be wrong, but I tend to think the meaning of agnostic is drifting more towards we can't know for sure. Under that definition one can most certainly be both an atheist and an agonistic. One can also be an agnostic and a theist. Meaning something like - "I don't know gods exist, but I believe they do."


Tcg

[Inquirer]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #344]

Hi T.
Words tend to mean what people thi.k that they mean, and I reckon the average answers around here would plump for ' agnostic means dunno.'

I'd guess that the split around here is 60/40 with the 60 going for something like we don't know or can't know.

That might hurt but even a word like 'sick' can mean 'brilliant' ....!

Two kids watching a V8 Stingray roar past.... 'Wow! Well sick!'

This reminds me of when I first moved to Bucks County, PA as a junior higher. A jacked up '55 Chevy drove by, and some of my new friends said, "decent!" I was confused because I thought it was a very cool car. I later learned that in that little spot of the world, "decent" meant "very cool."

The meaning of words and phrases can indeed drift. Just as with the words atheist and agnostic. I could be wrong, but I tend to think the meaning of agnostic is drifting more towards we can't know for sure. Under that definition one can most certainly be both an atheist and an agonistic. One can also be an agnostic and a theist. Meaning something like - "I don't know gods exist, but I believe they do."


Tcg

Is this then an appropriate definition of atheism so far as you regard yourself an atheist?

To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is "an absence of belief in the existence of gods and an absence of belief in the non-existence of Gods"

Because if that definition is unpalatable (as I suspect it is to you) then surely this is the only alternative:

To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is "an absence of belief in the existence of gods and a presence of belief in the non-existence of Gods"

I also respectfully request that you do not describe these questions as "wordplay" or "word games", because if you do opt to describe them as such then on what grounds is this not word games:

To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

[William]

[Replying to Kylie in post #342]

I am happy to leave it to people to define God in whatever way works best for them.

So I think it best that "God" is not defined. I have no definition for "God" and feel comfortable asking those who believe and those who lack belief, how they define both.

For those who lack belief in God, I ask because I think it is illogical to identify a lack of belief in something which one cannot define for others to understand exactly what it is they lack belief in.

I also - naturally enough - assume that the use of the word "belief" denotes something to do with something which has been defined.

That is why I ask.

You decided to make it complicated by assuming I had to mean one specific definition of God.

I did not make it so, theism is responsible for doing that. I have not found in any single theist definition of God, anything which has me believing any of them, but have found that putting them all together gives me an image of sorts but not enough to be defining God from my own perspective as something I have to 'believe' or 'lack belief' in.

I fail to see how atheism or theism matters in relation to our universe, other than atheists think it was happenstance and theists claim it was created.

Neither atheism or theism is of any practical use in answering that question, so I am under no obligation to identify my position on their matters, using the rules which come from these separate houses [Atheism and Theism] through atheists and theists.

So, until you answer my question, I cannot answer yours.

Please define for me, this "GOD" you "LACK BELIEF" in.

I am not asking you to name any specific God from the myriad of theistic teachings. Rather I am asking the more fundamental thing. What is it you are meaning when YOU use the word?

[William]

Not if it means you cannot accept that I am neither atheist or theist. What is there to discuss?

Hi......... your sentence, above, pushes me to ask:-
Are you an agnostic? I presume that an agnostic can be neither theist nor atheist.

No, I am not - as agnosticism is derived from the question of GOD and belongs within the conflict between theist and non theist/theism and atheism.

I am more like someone who - on my journey - came across two gigantic quarrelling entities speaking jibber-jabber and after working out each one wanted me to join with them in their jibber-jabber, learned their language and from that, understood.
When I told them that the question of GOD was cart-before-horse, so I couldn't accept either of their arguments, they told me that I could not pass until I made the choice.

So here I am sitting meditating in the tussocks nearby, working on how to get around them.