WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BELIEVE IN JESUS?

[Eddie Ramos]

Throughout the vast religions of the world, most of them acknowledge Jesus Christ as having something to do with God. In other words, they all say that they believe in Jesus, but what exactly do they believe about Jesus? This is where the division comes in. Some believe that Jesus was just a good teacher, but not the son of God. Yet others believe that Jesus was the son of God, but not God himself. And still others believe that Jesus was God in the flesh. But all of these believe in Jesus. Does that mean that they are all saved? Not at all. When the Bible says that we must believe in Jesus, there is actually something very specific that God has in mind.

John 8:24 (KJV 1900)
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins.

The Word of God tells us that believing in Jesus is to believe that he is I AM, meaning , JEHOVAH in the flesh. And because God has written the Bible in the form of parables (to conceal truth), the casual reader who approaches the Bible as a plain textbook, is left extremely confused as to who one is versus the other. And so, they say they believe in Jesus, yet they actually don't truly believe the way the Bible requires it. They reject that Jesus is God in the flesh. And by doing so, they remain dead their sins as per John 8:24.

I will be defending the truth of the scriptures that teach that Jesus is JEHOVAH in the flesh, and that true belief in Jesus, means to believe that he is indeed JEHOVAH in the flesh. If anyone objects this position, I will respond with the Bible to whatever scriptures you provide.

What do you think it means, according to the Bible, to believe in Jesus?

[1213]

Well, when we read it in the Old Testament, it also doesn't make logical sense to us because it doesn't make grammatical sense. ...

To me it makes sense. And it is interesting how you find it nonsensical.

If it makes sense to you then when JEHOVAH said it, then why doesn't it make sense to you when Christ said the same thing?

John 8:58 (KJV 1900)
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.

Because "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, God, doesn't mean anything. When God said ...“I AM WHO I AM,” ..., “You shall tell the children of Israel this: “I AM has sent me to you.”..., it has a meaning.

[Eddie Ramos]

[Replying to Eddie Ramos in post #15]

"I Am That I Am"
Is not the same as
"I Am"

YHWH: "I Am That I Am"

Jesus: "I Am"

Exodus 3:14 (KJV 1900)
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

It is indeed the same, but what you're doing is trying to look for a direct word for word match in order to convince yourself. That is not how the Bible was written.

Thanks for clarifying.

So now what do we have here. Jesus sent God to Moses..."I AM hath sent me unto you"

If I understand correctly, you're an atheist (please correct me if I'm wrong). Therefore there is no way you can possibly grasp any type of spiritual explanation from the scriptures as to the Godhead. What you're looking for is a logical solution to an infinite being like God. Even true children of God can only understand that which God has chosen to reveal about himself in his word, and it's still difficult to grasp how God can be three distinct deities and yet one God. But when all of the information is considered and weighed against the scriptures, that is the only conclusion that harmonizes as a whole.

Isaiah 55:8-9 (KJV)
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways,
and my thoughts than your thoughts.

The Pharisees understood what Christ was saying when he said, "Before Abraham I AM". that's why they tried to stone him which we read of in only one other incident, when they told Christ that he made himself to be God, by making the statement, "I and my Father are one ".

John 10:30-33 (KJV) 30 I and my Father are one. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

John 8:58-59 (KJV) 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

[William]

[Replying to Eddie Ramos in post #22]

If I understand correctly, you're an atheist (please correct me if I'm wrong).

I am neither atheist nor theist.

Therefore there is no way you can possibly grasp any type of spiritual explanation from the scriptures as to the Godhead.

I see atheists cherry-pick and deduce from that basket, a largely evil critter in the nature of YHWH.

Theists tend to do the same in mirrored manner - cherry-picking the good critter in the nature of YHWH.

Presently it is my suspicion that YHWH represents a mind directly related to human beings and that it is the planet Herself who acts out the parts played in the GODs of human invention, of which YHWH plays the overall roll of God-Father.

I suspect now, that the planet-mind is like "Many Heads One Mind - Many Minds One Head" and re humans, most of the minds are not tuned into the same YHWH frequency and are largely left to their own devices.

Other minds are useful and are utilized even if the one who's mind is being played, is unaware of that.

Fewer still tune into the frequency which allows for relationship to develop between the individual mind and the mind of YHWH.

Re the Bible, this is a storybook of fellows supposedly connected to The Mind of YHWH. Their stories are largely told as biography [an account of someone's life written by someone else.] Stories heard first around campfires and elaborated on...and later encoded within writing and locked into place no longer - so easily - elaborated upon.

What you're looking for is a logical solution to an infinite being like God.

Not particularly. What I am looking for is evidence that we existed within a simulation - or as theists refer to it - in a "Creation".
The reason for that quest, is that until it is established that we do, puckering up on God-issues [religiously] is horse before the cart stuff, and less interesting for that.

Also, I have already come to a logical solution to the idea of an infinite being, and have no problem logically incorporating that into the solution I am heading toward re the Simulation Question.

Even true children of God can only understand that which God has chosen to reveal about himself in his word, and it's still difficult to grasp how God can be three distinct deities and yet one God.

Given that reasoning, it is therefore likely that the understanding I have is because God has chosen to reveal it to me. It is easy enough to understand even using human logic and no particular idea of GOD at all, but I am open to the idea that GOD reveals things to me.

Such as is the presumed case. I can understand the theory on how GOD can be the many while remaining The One. -

But when all of the information is considered and weighed against the scriptures, that is the only conclusion that harmonizes as a whole.

As long as the interpretation of scripture does not attempt to limit the nature of GOD to only 3 in 1 I can bounce with that.

I admit freely that the afore mentioned "connecting into the frequency of YHWH" is the only thing which can have the individual involved with the 3'n1 - even to the point where there is no discernable difference in how the individual mind is receiving the information from YHWH - which - incidentally - involves information which is not even in the Bible - unsurprisingly since the bible is a bound book and The Mind of YHWH is a Living Thing.

For example - the Bible quote you used in an effort to establish your point about said mind;

Isaiah 55:8-9 (KJV)
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways,
and my thoughts than your thoughts.

"The Heavens" are referencing another realm. for in the realm of the Physical Universe, there is no place 'higher' than any other.
Also - as I mentioned - one can tune into the frequency of YHWH [As biblical Jesus encourages folk to do] and thus have access to the thoughts of YHWH, but only in relation to ones position in the scheme of things [and maybe titbits too] because the information YHWH holds, simply cannot be contained within the human brain and it is in that sense [in my opinion] that YHWH is stating "your thoughts are not my thoughts" although I am open to being corrected re that.

In this sense, TMY [The Mind of YHWH] can be imagined as being the whole [circle in this case], and individual minds as being the parts.[dots making up the circle]



The important thing then [re our discussion] is that there is no perceptible difference other than when YHWH takes on form. YHWH is The Mind [ideas man] Jesus is the matter [how the ideas are made physical] and Ghost is that which makes the movement of the physical into form and function.

That is my rough guesstimate...

[Some folks have problems re that and prefer to throw stones and ask [rhetorical] questions after the killing is done.]

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Eddie Ramos in post #15]
It doesn't make sense for Christ to say that, because he made VERY clear that he was subservient to the Father, Jehovah. He would never contradict everything else that he said about his relationship with his Father. "The Father is greater than I am," he said at John 14:28. This was not just while he was on Earth, either, for I Corinthians 11:3 clearly states that "the head of the Christ is God."

To say that Jesus said that he was "I Am" is to accept a sloppy and mixed up rendering, with mangled word order. It is a totally ungrammatical construction. The Greek reads: prin Abraam genesthai ego eimi. This is fine, idiomatic Greek.It can be translated straightforwardly into English by doing what translators always do with Greek, namely, rearrange the word order into normal English order, and adjust things like verbal tense complementarity into proper English expression [as BeDuhn says in his book, "Truth in Translation"]. Greek and English are not the same language and do not obey the same rules of grammar. Rendering this as many translations do simply won't work. Greek has more flexibility with word order than English does, and it can mix verbal tenses in a way English cannot. When because Greek idioms are different from English idioms, translators do not translate these expressions word-for-word but rather convey the meaning of the Greek idiom in proper, comprehensible English. At least, that is what translators are supposed to do. In John 8:58 since Jesus' existence is not completed past action, but ongoing, we must use some sort of imperfect verbal form to convey that: "I have been since before Abraham came to be." That's as close as we can get to what the Greek says in our own language if we pay attention to ALL parts of the sentence. Both the Living Bible and the New World Translation offer translations that coordinate the two verbs in John 8:58 according to proper English syntax, and that accurately reflect the meaning of the Greek idiom. [Living Bible: I was in existence before Abraham was ever born!]

After all has been said and done, the fact remains that "I am" is a very uncertain rendering of the Hebrew expression in Exodus. Some translators render Exodus 3:14 as "I Will Become Whatsoever I Please" (Rotherham's translation) or "I Will Be That I Will Be" (Leeser) or "I Will Be There Howsoever I Will Be There" (Everett Fox). So how do these renderings line up with what Jesus said at John 8:58? "Before Abraham was born, I Will"?

The majority of translations recognize other idiomatic uses of "I am," and properly integrate the words into the context of the passages where they appear. Yet when it comes to 8:58, they suddenly forget how to translate.

[kjw47]

Throughout the vast religions of the world, most of them acknowledge Jesus Christ as having something to do with God. In other words, they all say that they believe in Jesus, but what exactly do they believe about Jesus? This is where the division comes in. Some believe that Jesus was just a good teacher, but not the son of God. Yet others believe that Jesus was the son of God, but not God himself. And still others believe that Jesus was God in the flesh. But all of these believe in Jesus. Does that mean that they are all saved? Not at all. When the Bible says that we must believe in Jesus, there is actually something very specific that God has in mind.

John 8:24 (KJV 1900)
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins.

The Word of God tells us that believing in Jesus is to believe that he is I AM, meaning , JEHOVAH in the flesh. And because God has written the Bible in the form of parables (to conceal truth), the casual reader who approaches the Bible as a plain textbook, is left extremely confused as to who one is versus the other. And so, they say they believe in Jesus, yet they actually don't truly believe the way the Bible requires it. They reject that Jesus is God in the flesh. And by doing so, they remain dead their sins as per John 8:24.

I will be defending the truth of the scriptures that teach that Jesus is JEHOVAH in the flesh, and that true belief in Jesus, means to believe that he is indeed JEHOVAH in the flesh. If anyone objects this position, I will respond with the Bible to whatever scriptures you provide.

What do you think it means, according to the Bible, to believe in Jesus?

Actually sir the Hebrew scholars say that statement in their Hebrew OT does not translate- i am that i am. It translates- i will be what i will be. Thus when Jesus answered the pharisees question he just answered it honestly-he lived before Abraham was all he stated there in that statement --before Abraham was i am.
In the OT a single passage proves Jesus is not YHWH(Jehovah) --The LORD said to my Lord( Jesus)--Which was actually inspired by Gods will to say-YHWH said to my Lord( Jesus)--But for some reason, which could only be satans will, Gods name was removed by wicked men who had no right to alter Gods word. Every spot in OT where GOD or LORD all capitols is, nearly 6800 spots. And in the NT where the OT is quoted and the name belongs in the OT. It was done by satans will to mislead. Thus i truly believe that all using the altered versions are being mislead to support satans will over Gods will, God who inspired his name to be there because he wants it there.

[Eddie Ramos]

Throughout the vast religions of the world, most of them acknowledge Jesus Christ as having something to do with God. In other words, they all say that they believe in Jesus, but what exactly do they believe about Jesus? This is where the division comes in. Some believe that Jesus was just a good teacher, but not the son of God. Yet others believe that Jesus was the son of God, but not God himself. And still others believe that Jesus was God in the flesh. But all of these believe in Jesus. Does that mean that they are all saved? Not at all. When the Bible says that we must believe in Jesus, there is actually something very specific that God has in mind.

John 8:24 (KJV 1900)
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins.

The Word of God tells us that believing in Jesus is to believe that he is I AM, meaning , JEHOVAH in the flesh. And because God has written the Bible in the form of parables (to conceal truth), the casual reader who approaches the Bible as a plain textbook, is left extremely confused as to who one is versus the other. And so, they say they believe in Jesus, yet they actually don't truly believe the way the Bible requires it. They reject that Jesus is God in the flesh. And by doing so, they remain dead their sins as per John 8:24.

I will be defending the truth of the scriptures that teach that Jesus is JEHOVAH in the flesh, and that true belief in Jesus, means to believe that he is indeed JEHOVAH in the flesh. If anyone objects this position, I will respond with the Bible to whatever scriptures you provide.

What do you think it means, according to the Bible, to believe in Jesus?

Actually sir the Hebrew scholars say that statement in their Hebrew OT does not translate- i am that i am. It translates- i will be what i will be. Thus when Jesus answered the pharisees question he just answered it honestly-he lived before Abraham was all he stated there in that statement --before Abraham was i am.
In the OT a single passage proves Jesus is not YHWH(Jehovah) --The LORD said to my Lord( Jesus)--Which was actually inspired by Gods will to say-YHWH said to my Lord( Jesus)--But for some reason, which could only be satans will, Gods name was removed by wicked men who had no right to alter Gods word. Every spot in OT where GOD or LORD all capitols is, nearly 6800 spots. And in the NT where the OT is quoted and the name belongs in the OT. It was done by satans will to mislead. Thus i truly believe that all using the altered versions are being mislead to support satans will over Gods will, God who inspired his name to be there because he wants it there.

Thank you for your reply, however, what scholars have to say on any matter of scriptures, should not be viewed as scripture itself. But instead, should be weighed against the scriptures for accuracy. Else you have made a horrible mistake in trusting in man has to say rather than God.

Jeremiah 17:5 (KJV 1900)
Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.

Proverbs 3:5 (KJV 1900)
5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; And lean not unto thine own understanding.

To settle any matter of scholarly opinion (because all scholars interpret each with their own bias and belief), God has provided us with the original inspired Word, so as to examine the validity of the claims of others, including mine. Thus you have chosen to place your trust in what scholars have to say in what God "meant" by what he said to Moses. Not, "I AM THAT I AM", but rather in the future tense, "I WILL BE WHAT I WILL BE". But if we take the time to look up this word ourselves, we can see that this is Strong's #H1961. And this word in Exodus 3:14, "I AM THAT I AM", is a verb, Qal, imperfect, 1st person, common, singular. What does all that mean? Well, it doesn't mean that this word can only or mainly be interpreted as a future tense, but as past, present and future. That is what "QAL" does to the imperfect verb. This is why, when it came to this verse in Exodus 3:14, the translators correctly translated it as "I AM", because it denotes that JEHOVAH is a God who "was, is and is to come".

Revelation 1:8 (KJV 1900)
I AM (ego eimi) Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

As far as your single passage which you think proves that Jesus is not JEHOVAH, there is no single passage that stands alone in the Bible. Every scripture must agree with any conclusion we make because the Bible is one cohesive truth. Therefore, when all relevant scriptures are examined in light of the fact that they must all agree, then the only conclusion the Bible will permit is that Jesus Christ is JEHOVAH in the flesh.

Acts 20:28 (KJV 1900)
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

1 Timothy 3:16 (KJV 1900)
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

The mystery of the Godhead is just that, a mystery. Do you honestly think that such a mystery will be plainly laid out in the open for all to see? No. This mystery is hid from the eyes of those whose eyes are shut by God himself.

2 Corinthians 4:4 (KJV 1900)
4 In whom the GOD of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

[Eddie Ramos]

[Replying to Eddie Ramos in post #15]
It doesn't make sense for Christ to say that, because he made VERY clear that he was subservient to the Father, Jehovah. He would never contradict everything else that he said about his relationship with his Father. "The Father is greater than I am," he said at John 14:28. This was not just while he was on Earth, either, for I Corinthians 11:3 clearly states that "the head of the Christ is God."

To say that Jesus said that he was "I Am" is to accept a sloppy and mixed up rendering, with mangled word order. It is a totally ungrammatical construction. The Greek reads: prin Abraam genesthai ego eimi. This is fine, idiomatic Greek.It can be translated straightforwardly into English by doing what translators always do with Greek, namely, rearrange the word order into normal English order, and adjust things like verbal tense complementarity into proper English expression [as BeDuhn says in his book, "Truth in Translation"]. Greek and English are not the same language and do not obey the same rules of grammar. Rendering this as many translations do simply won't work. Greek has more flexibility with word order than English does, and it can mix verbal tenses in a way English cannot. When because Greek idioms are different from English idioms, translators do not translate these expressions word-for-word but rather convey the meaning of the Greek idiom in proper, comprehensible English. At least, that is what translators are supposed to do. In John 8:58 since Jesus' existence is not completed past action, but ongoing, we must use some sort of imperfect verbal form to convey that: "I have been since before Abraham came to be." That's as close as we can get to what the Greek says in our own language if we pay attention to ALL parts of the sentence. Both the Living Bible and the New World Translation offer translations that coordinate the two verbs in John 8:58 according to proper English syntax, and that accurately reflect the meaning of the Greek idiom. [Living Bible: I was in existence before Abraham was ever born!]

After all has been said and done, the fact remains that "I am" is a very uncertain rendering of the Hebrew expression in Exodus. Some translators render Exodus 3:14 as "I Will Become Whatsoever I Please" (Rotherham's translation) or "I Will Be That I Will Be" (Leeser) or "I Will Be There Howsoever I Will Be There" (Everett Fox). So how do these renderings line up with what Jesus said at John 8:58? "Before Abraham was born, I Will"?

The majority of translations recognize other idiomatic uses of "I am," and properly integrate the words into the context of the passages where they appear. Yet when it comes to 8:58, they suddenly forget how to translate.

Post #26 applies very much the same to suffice as an answer for this post.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to kjw47 in post #25]

Yes, and if we read the entire sentence of John 8:24 it says, to paraphrase, "if you don't believe that I am he, you will die in your sins." It does not say "unless you believe that I Am." Jesus was just stating that he is the one sent by God to save mankind from sin and death. He was not saying that he is "I Am." See what some sleight of hand in twisting the verse can do? It gives an entirely different meaning to what Jesus was saying.

[kjw47]

Throughout the vast religions of the world, most of them acknowledge Jesus Christ as having something to do with God. In other words, they all say that they believe in Jesus, but what exactly do they believe about Jesus? This is where the division comes in. Some believe that Jesus was just a good teacher, but not the son of God. Yet others believe that Jesus was the son of God, but not God himself. And still others believe that Jesus was God in the flesh. But all of these believe in Jesus. Does that mean that they are all saved? Not at all. When the Bible says that we must believe in Jesus, there is actually something very specific that God has in mind.

John 8:24 (KJV 1900)
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins.

The Word of God tells us that believing in Jesus is to believe that he is I AM, meaning , JEHOVAH in the flesh. And because God has written the Bible in the form of parables (to conceal truth), the casual reader who approaches the Bible as a plain textbook, is left extremely confused as to who one is versus the other. And so, they say they believe in Jesus, yet they actually don't truly believe the way the Bible requires it. They reject that Jesus is God in the flesh. And by doing so, they remain dead their sins as per John 8:24.

I will be defending the truth of the scriptures that teach that Jesus is JEHOVAH in the flesh, and that true belief in Jesus, means to believe that he is indeed JEHOVAH in the flesh. If anyone objects this position, I will respond with the Bible to whatever scriptures you provide.

What do you think it means, according to the Bible, to believe in Jesus?

Actually sir the Hebrew scholars say that statement in their Hebrew OT does not translate- i am that i am. It translates- i will be what i will be. Thus when Jesus answered the pharisees question he just answered it honestly-he lived before Abraham was all he stated there in that statement --before Abraham was i am.
In the OT a single passage proves Jesus is not YHWH(Jehovah) --The LORD said to my Lord( Jesus)--Which was actually inspired by Gods will to say-YHWH said to my Lord( Jesus)--But for some reason, which could only be satans will, Gods name was removed by wicked men who had no right to alter Gods word. Every spot in OT where GOD or LORD all capitols is, nearly 6800 spots. And in the NT where the OT is quoted and the name belongs in the OT. It was done by satans will to mislead. Thus i truly believe that all using the altered versions are being mislead to support satans will over Gods will, God who inspired his name to be there because he wants it there.

Thank you for your reply, however, what scholars have to say on any matter of scriptures, should not be viewed as scripture itself. But instead, should be weighed against the scriptures for accuracy. Else you have made a horrible mistake in trusting in man has to say rather than God.

Jeremiah 17:5 (KJV 1900)
Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.

Proverbs 3:5 (KJV 1900)
5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; And lean not unto thine own understanding.

To settle any matter of scholarly opinion (because all scholars interpret each with their own bias and belief), God has provided us with the original inspired Word, so as to examine the validity of the claims of others, including mine. Thus you have chosen to place your trust in what scholars have to say in what God "meant" by what he said to Moses. Not, "I AM THAT I AM", but rather in the future tense, "I WILL BE WHAT I WILL BE". But if we take the time to look up this word ourselves, we can see that this is Strong's #H1961. And this word in Exodus 3:14, "I AM THAT I AM", is a verb, Qal, imperfect, 1st person, common, singular. What does all that mean? Well, it doesn't mean that this word can only or mainly be interpreted as a future tense, but as past, present and future. That is what "QAL" does to the imperfect verb. This is why, when it came to this verse in Exodus 3:14, the translators correctly translated it as "I AM", because it denotes that JEHOVAH is a God who "was, is and is to come".

Revelation 1:8 (KJV 1900)
I AM (ego eimi) Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

As far as your single passage which you think proves that Jesus is not JEHOVAH, there is no single passage that stands alone in the Bible. Every scripture must agree with any conclusion we make because the Bible is one cohesive truth. Therefore, when all relevant scriptures are examined in light of the fact that they must all agree, then the only conclusion the Bible will permit is that Jesus Christ is JEHOVAH in the flesh.

Acts 20:28 (KJV 1900)
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

1 Timothy 3:16 (KJV 1900)
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

The mystery of the Godhead is just that, a mystery. Do you honestly think that such a mystery will be plainly laid out in the open for all to see? No. This mystery is hid from the eyes of those whose eyes are shut by God himself.

2 Corinthians 4:4 (KJV 1900)
4 In whom the GOD of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Yes i agree trusting is not wise. That is why i checked into facts. And what i post is reality.
The overseers are the real teachers that Jesus appointed, Many out there are blind guides misleading all not to enter Gods kingdom. Found in the religions using the altered versions of Gods written word.
There is no mystery about who God is--In Isaiah it is clear--I am YHWH beside me( singular) not we) there is no other God.

[kjw47]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #28]


Yes believe i am he = The one sent by God, the Messiah. The Israelite scholars of the day would not believe it.
They rejected him.