Okay, Let's Cut To The Chase!

[POI]

Dear Christians of all flavor(s),

I trust it is no surprise there exists a populous here, which lay claim to 'atheism', 'deism', or maybe other... In a nutshell, for me, this ultimately means I do not believe any such claimed Christian God exists - trying though as I might.... Which-is-to-mean, I was raised in a Christian house hold. However, after much study, I cannot get myself to belief such a claimed agent actually exists. Chalk it up, ultimately, to the topic of 'divine hiddenness' I guess...?

It is also evident there exists devout 'Christians' in this arena, of all flavors, who may feel they are 'fighting the good fight'; by defending their belief(s)/faith/rationale in the assertion of the existence to the "Christian God".

That being said, I am laying down the gauntlet, so-to-speak... Some here, as well as outside of here, are as sure as anything, that not only does God exist, but the Christian God! Well, I politely disagree. Meaning, I don't believe the "Christian based" assertion/claim.

I can't imagine this request will be anything new. Nor, can I imagine that I will encounter any new sort of enlightenment. But, being this is a rather large and important topic; I will continue to search, optimistically, that there exists some sort of 'concrete evidence(s)' to demonstrate that not only a God exists ---> but also the Christian God.

For Debate:

Please demonstrate the mere existence of the Christian God?

[Tcg]

[Replying to Tcg in post #54]

Well, cut to the chase, send that email and find out. My words don't matter to you. Ask a Jewish Christian.

No thanks. I'll wait for you to address the evidence I've presented. I suspect it'll be a very long wait.

In any case, even if there were a "Jewish Christian", that wouldn't be evidence of a Christian God. Again, as a reminder, that is the focus of this thread.


Tcg

[Tcg]

4. There are testimonies all over the internet.

And some of those testimonies include reaching the conclusion that gods don't exist. Testimonies aren't evidence for or against gods, they are simply statements of what people believe. People believe all kinds of things. Certainly, we shouldn't believe them all simply because they are posted on the internet.


Tcg

[TRANSPONDER]

Yes. Our pal wannabe rather pulls a dubious link between Judaism and Christianity. But that was never going to work, was is it? We all know that Christianity isn't Judaism - ask any Jew.

Yeah, but do you ask them on Saturday or Sunday? Is it work to answer a question on the Sabbath?


Tcg

Just to be safe, on a religious forum in E mail. Then they can check with the rabbi when and whether they can answer and whether they will need to sacrifice a pigeon.

[Replying to Tcg in post #50]

Pretty sure I am right on this one.

Maybe go speak to the many Jews converting today. They all feel more Jewish not less.

Don't just rely on your desire to win on a debating forum.

I know from experience talking to Jewish converts.

https://www.oneforisrael.org/about/

I also know they will reply to your emails.

Would you be persuaded by the opinions of ex -christian atheists? Then why should we be interested in the opinions of Jews who have (allegedly) bought into Christianity? I have seen converts all ways, and with the single exception of atheists, for some unexplained reason, all for bad reasons.

No one can prove God, only God can do that and he sometimes does.

1. Based upon what criteria, does He or does He not do so?

2. Is it possible the recipient can completely miss the Christian God's given personal revelation or proof?

3. Why doesn't He just prove Himself to all?

4. How do you know the Christian God has actually proven Himself to anyone?

5. Is self delusion possible?

6. Has He proven Himself to you? If so, how do you know?

1. The criteria : would be that you give as much respect to gods existence as the person standing next to you, as a way for God to review your worth.

https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/ ... uman-Heart

2. I have no idea.

3. Your missing the point of creation.

4. There are testimonies all over the internet.

5. Sure - why not ?

6. Here is one example:

When I was 17 I purchased a raffle ticket from my brother who was helping raise money for his school.
From the moment I'd purchased the ticket I immediately had the understanding that I was going to win the first prize. Also it came to no surprise when
I was informed I had won.

So I can't explain my 100% of assuredly of knowledge, but it made me believe in the possibility of prophecy and that miracles could be true.
Then many years later I found Jesus and it all just clicked.

I'm sorry, but anecdotal claim of miracles (which is what that is) are worthless. Not presuming to call that an invention, but one might doubt how you remember it. You won a prize, and you recall the exited hope that you might just win it and remember it as a knowing conviction. You see how the memory can deceive you? It doesn't deceive me. No more than buying into Faith and it 'just clicked' Of course, Faith immediately selects and dismisses just to maintain the Faith, then it Works. The debunk is; if God can work an occasional miracle, why not when it is really needed? Cue: "God knows what He is doing".

[1213]

Reason why I believe is the Bible and that this world exists as described in the Bible. I don't think humans could have made the Bible without God, because it shows better understanding that people otherwise has.

Please start by giving one specific example of this claim?

For example the idea of single continent* at the beginning and the great flood, which explains why we have modern continents, marine fossils one high mountains, oil, gas and cola fields, vast sediment formations.

*God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters he called Seas. God saw that it was good.
Genesis 1:10

[1213]

The Bible presents a variety of methods to attain eternal life.

Really? Please show one example.

The Bible isn't evidence for God or for what God wants. The Bible makes claims about these things. Claims are not evidence.

Evidence is basically some result of an event. Evidence may have many possible reasons, but still, there is something that caused it. Evidence/results don't come from nothing. One reason for the Bible is that God actually did what is told in the Bible and people wrote it down. If it really happened, the evidence for it would be a book telling about it. But, evidence is not the same as a proof. You can believe the reason for the Bible is something else, but still it is an evidence (the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid). Bible gives the reason to think those things and God may be real, because why else would it exist?

[1213]

...The Bible gets so much wrong...

One reason why I believe in the Bible is that atheist have not managed to show even one error in the Bible. Many have tried and failed miserably. If the Bible would be purely from humans, I think it would have failed a long time ago and we would not have it today.

It is very interesting how much people have fought against the Bible message and its messengers. Jews and Christians have been persecuted a lot. Why do you think it is so hated that people go to extremes in fight against it?

[Tcg]

Reason why I believe is the Bible and that this world exists as described in the Bible. I don't think humans could have made the Bible without God, because it shows better understanding that people otherwise has.

Please start by giving one specific example of this claim?

For example the idea of single continent* at the beginning and the great flood, which explains why we have modern continents, marine fossils one high mountains, oil, gas and cola fields, vast sediment formations.

*God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters he called Seas. God saw that it was good.
Genesis 1:10

Record scratch... This doesn't mention a single continent and certainly not one that floats on water. You've read that into the text.


Tcg

[Tcg]

The Bible presents a variety of methods to attain eternal life.

Really? Please show one example.

Have you read gospel John? If not, I'll be glad to point out what is perhaps the most quoted verse in all of Christianity.

The Bible isn't evidence for God or for what God wants. The Bible makes claims about these things. Claims are not evidence.

Evidence is basically some result of an event. Evidence may have many possible reasons, but still, there is something that caused it. Evidence/results don't come from nothing. One reason for the Bible is that God actually did what is told in the Bible and people wrote it down. If it really happened, the evidence for it would be a book telling about it. But, evidence is not the same as a proof. You can believe the reason for the Bible is something else, but still it is an evidence (the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid). Bible gives the reason to think those things and God may be real, because why else would it exist?

The Bible exists because some folks wrote some stuff and other folks compiled that stuff some folks wrote. No mystery there.


Tcg

[Tcg]

One reason why I believe in the Bible is that atheist have not managed to show even one error in the Bible.

Atheists and others (a reminder that it isn't only atheists who recognize the many flaws in the Bible, we have a thread around these parts where a Christian theist admits them) have pointed out numerous errors in the Bible. Some of which start out in the very first book of the Bible.


Tcg

[TRANSPONDER]

...The Bible gets so much wrong...

One reason why I believe in the Bible is that atheist have not managed to show even one error in the Bible. Many have tried and failed miserably. If the Bible would be purely from humans, I think it would have failed a long time ago and we would not have it today.

It is very interesting how much people have fought against the Bible message and its messengers. Jews and Christians have been persecuted a lot. Why do you think it is so hated that people go to extremes in fight against it?

You mean that you have refused to admit any errors in the Bible. Just look at the 'circle of the earth'. You accepted (many don't) that it does mean a circxle but not a sphere. But then you had the circle drawn on a bit of the round earth. I examined that and showed that it was hardly a circle, but the general middle east. As I recall, you didn't respond. Thus you can admit I haven't shown an error, mainly because you came up with an ad hoc excuse and then didn't respond. I could chuck a truckload of errors at you and you'd deny or ignore them. We see that all the time. but bottom line - your denial of errors doesn't mean there aren't any.

I suppose I must deal with your playing of the Victim card. Atheists have had their fair share of slam from the religious. In the US an atheist cannot admit it and hope to be elected to anything. In Indonesia, it's illegal to be an atheist. Christianity has tried to eliminate Islam, Islam has tried to eliminate Hinduism, Every religion has played its' part in wars. You can't claim to be martyred saints just because people will say the Bible is not credible and try to push Christian influence out of politics.