What if Adam and Eve Had Resisted...?

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William
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What if Adam and Eve Had Resisted...?

Post #1

Post by William »

IF Adam and Eve had resisted the temptation to eat the forbidden fruit, would they have been permitted to do so eventually?

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Re: What if Adam and Eve Had Resisted...?

Post #31

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:58 pm
William wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:44 pm
____________________
Q: Why did YHWH create a biological creature which was going to die eventually?
____________________

God did not create humans to die eventually.
But being omniscient, before he created A&E god knew they and all their descendants would eventually die. So, in a very real sense god did create humans to die eventually. Something he could have prevented if he really cared to.

.

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Re: What if Adam and Eve Had Resisted...?

Post #32

Post by William »

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #30]
God did not create humans to die eventually.
God's original purpose for humans was simple, his purpose was that all the human desendants of Adam live happilly forever on this our planet earth as one united family. In short, why did God create us? To be happy and enjoy life.
There is no mention of this assumed purpose in the story.

YHWH specified the purpose in creating human form the way it was created, was for humans to multiply and subdue the Earth. Why do you not take this into consideration?

YHWH created the human form to eventually die, but made sure that - through humans breeding - human beings would still be able to fulfill the purpose [subdue the Earth].

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Re: What if Adam and Eve Had Resisted...?

Post #33

Post by William »

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #29]
In this case what the tree represented (and would continue to represent) constitutes the reason for not discontinuing the mandate even if Adam and Eve had not sinned.
I have critiqued your reply, which you have yet to respond to. So the answer is still - "Yes".
There is no reason why they should not be able to do so and every reason why they should be permitted to do so.

What both trees represent does not mean that the trees actually have those attributes of life and death.

There is no reason why YHWH would not allow Adam to eat the fruit, as the fruit would no longer represent what it once was used to represent.

As I wrote in post#24;
William: There is no reason why they should not be able to do so and every reason why they should be permitted to do so.
And in post #18
William: If what was once prohibited by YHWH is then allowed by YHWH, who are you to declare that YHWH is being contradictory?
YHWH is biblically attributed as being able and willing to changing his mind about something. Another clue that you are way off track.

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Re: What if Adam and Eve Had Resisted...?

Post #34

Post by William »

Miles wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:38 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:58 pm
William wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:44 pm
____________________
Q: Why did YHWH create a biological creature which was going to die eventually?
____________________

God did not create humans to die eventually.
But being omniscient, before he created A&E god knew they and all their descendants would eventually die. So, in a very real sense god did create humans to die eventually.

.
This has to be the correct way to understand the story, as the story is presented.
Something he could have prevented if he really cared to.
That YHWH did not do things in that way, means that there was a specific agenda involved with this particular creation.

Part of the confusion may derive from what the garden itself represents.

Folk seem to mistake the garden for being 'paradise' and that somehow the paradise existed over the whole face of the Earth.

However, if that were the case, what reason would YHWH have for creating humans who then had to breed in order to keep humanity alive, in order that humanity would eventually subdue the planet?

So the garden has to represent a tiny dot of paradise within an otherwise wild/untamed environment.

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Re: What if Adam and Eve Had Resisted...?

Post #35

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:38 pm
But being omniscient, before he created A&E god knew they and all their descendants would eventually die.
No I dont believe he knew that at all.

Did God know Adam and Eve would sin?
viewtopic.php?p=967763#p967763

Would God not EXPECT his law to be broken ? ("set up To fail")
viewtopic.php?p=1089025#p1089025
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: What if Adam and Eve Had Resisted...?

Post #36

Post by JehovahsWitness »

William wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:42 pm [Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #30]
God did not create humans to die eventually.
God's original purpose for humans was simple, his purpose was that all the human desendants of Adam live happilly forever on this our planet earth as one united family. In short, why did God create us? To be happy and enjoy life.
There is no mention of this assumed purpose in the story.
Which is where critical thinking skills come in
William wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:42 pmYHWH specified the purpose in creating human form the way it was created was for humans to multiply and subdue the Earth.
Correct... so? There is nothing that imposes death therein.
William wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:42 pmYHWH created the human form to eventually die
Prove that with scripture.








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Romans 14:8

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Re: What if Adam and Eve Had Resisted...?

Post #37

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 10:48 pm
Miles wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:38 pm
But being omniscient, before he created A&E god knew they and all their descendants would eventually die.
No I dont believe he knew that at all.
Care to explain why an omniscient, all-knowing, god wouldn't know something?

.

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Re: What if Adam and Eve Had Resisted...?

Post #38

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:32 am
Care to explain why an omniscient, all-knowing, god wouldn't know something?

.
Presumably because He chose not to.


OMNISCIENCE & SELECTIVE FOREKNOWLEDGE

Can God use his power of foreknowledge selectively?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 14#p848314

Does the idea of being selective in the use of his powers negate God being "all knowing" in nature ?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 68#p849068

DID GOD KNOW ADAM AND EVE WOULD SIN?




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Does the idea of being selective in the use of his powers negate God being "all knowing" in nature ?
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Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Tue Sep 20, 2022 4:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: What if Adam and Eve Had Resisted...?

Post #39

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:50 am
Miles wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:32 am
Care to explain why an omniscient, all-knowing, god wouldn't know something?

.
Presumably because He chose not to.
"Presumably"? This isn't even a "nice try." But as long as your reasoning is based only on belief, "No I dont believe he knew that at all." it hardly matters. Omniscience steadfastly remains a robust all-inclusive concept; If you know all then you know all. :approve:

.

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Re: What if Adam and Eve Had Resisted...?

Post #40

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:03 amOmniscience steadfastly remains a robust all-inclusive concept
For an omnipotent being obviously, his omniscience would include the ability to exercise choice as to accessing foreknowledge.


Logic,



JW



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Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Tue Sep 20, 2022 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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