Top 10 Design Flaws in the Human Body

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Top 10 Design Flaws in the Human Body

Post #1

Post by Compassionist »

These design flaws prove that we were not intelligently designed by an all-knowing and all-powerful God. They prove that we evolved. Please see: https://nautil.us/top-10-design-flaws-i ... dy-235403/

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Re: Top 10 Design Flaws in the Human Body

Post #11

Post by Diagoras »

Inquirer wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:59 amNope. That's totally illogical, how can your lack of awareness of God's intent be elevated to a claim that God played no role?
Assumes facts not in evidence (God's intent).

I'd like to see a bit more from anyone arguing the negative to the OP: perhaps by pointing out the actual benefits of some of these 'flaws'.

If such benefits are shown then there's a stronger case for the 'design' claim. That would be a more fruitful debate, IMHO.

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Re: Top 10 Design Flaws in the Human Body

Post #12

Post by Clownboat »

Inquirer wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 3:08 pm
Clownboat wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:26 pm
Inquirer wrote:...how can your lack of awareness of God's intent...
Inquirer wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 12:42 pm Must we?
Well, this is a debate site, so you shouldn't be taken by surprise.
Copy/paste: Please show truth to your claim that Compassionist has a lack of awareness about a God's intent.
(Readers, ask yourselves if you think Inquirer has awareness about one of the gods, or if they are just pretending to while claiming another lacks it).
OK prove that what you say are flaws are really flaws?
You believe in the god of the Bible and will be unable to see the flaws as flaws, so there would be no point. You have a dog in the fight and this dog will not see the flaws. I address and respond for the readers here and trust many will acknowledge the design flaws from the OP. I care not if you see them and would expect you to not see flaws in a perfect gods creation.
go on, or better still define "flaw" here?
I will not allow you to drag me down to your level and beat me with experience.
Just because you see no reason for something does not make it a flaw - does that make it clearer?
Straw man as I never made this claim. You clarified nothing, sorry.
So you don't know what a flaw is, very well, that explains the impasse.
That's a new one. You failed to debate honorably and then blame me for not knowing what a flaw is!

I know what a flaw is... For example, making a claim on a debate forum, then being challenged on said claim only to dodge evidencing your claim is one of those faults being displayed.
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Re: Top 10 Design Flaws in the Human Body

Post #13

Post by Inquirer »

Diagoras wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 6:23 pm
Inquirer wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:59 amNope. That's totally illogical, how can your lack of awareness of God's intent be elevated to a claim that God played no role?
Assumes facts not in evidence (God's intent).
Yes, that's a speculative assumption are you now going to argue neither of us can make any assumptions?

You do not know if God does exist and does have an intent, so then do you agree that, without knowing the intent of what he allows we can't evaluate its efficacy?
Diagoras wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 6:23 pm I'd like to see a bit more from anyone arguing the negative to the OP: perhaps by pointing out the actual benefits of some of these 'flaws'.

If such benefits are shown then there's a stronger case for the 'design' claim. That would be a more fruitful debate, IMHO.

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Re: Top 10 Design Flaws in the Human Body

Post #14

Post by Inquirer »

Clownboat wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:30 am
Inquirer wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 3:08 pm
Clownboat wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:26 pm
Inquirer wrote:...how can your lack of awareness of God's intent...
Inquirer wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 12:42 pm Must we?
Well, this is a debate site, so you shouldn't be taken by surprise.
Copy/paste: Please show truth to your claim that Compassionist has a lack of awareness about a God's intent.
(Readers, ask yourselves if you think Inquirer has awareness about one of the gods, or if they are just pretending to while claiming another lacks it).
OK prove that what you say are flaws are really flaws?
You believe in the god of the Bible and will be unable to see the flaws as flaws, so there would be no point. You have a dog in the fight and this dog will not see the flaws. I address and respond for the readers here and trust many will acknowledge the design flaws from the OP. I care not if you see them and would expect you to not see flaws in a perfect gods creation.
go on, or better still define "flaw" here?
I will not allow you to drag me down to your level and beat me with experience.
Just because you see no reason for something does not make it a flaw - does that make it clearer?
Straw man as I never made this claim. You clarified nothing, sorry.
So you don't know what a flaw is, very well, that explains the impasse.
That's a new one. You failed to debate honorably and then blame me for not knowing what a flaw is!

I know what a flaw is... For example, making a claim on a debate forum, then being challenged on said claim only to dodge evidencing your claim is one of those faults being displayed.
Very well so on what basis do you claim that any of the issues raised by the OP are flaws? can you actually prove that any of them are actually flaws?

As a very experienced designer I can tell you that all designs are compromises - bear this in mind as you plan your answer...

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Re: Top 10 Design Flaws in the Human Body

Post #15

Post by Diogenes »

Inquirer wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:01 pm
Very well so on what basis do you claim that any of the issues raised by the OP are flaws? can you actually prove that any of them are actually flaws?

As a very experienced designer I can tell you that all designs are compromises - bear this in mind as you plan your answer...
Certainly human designers must frequently compromise. Good design is often the product of a great compromise. But, theoretically, we are not dealing with a human designer. The claimed designer here is God. Should God have to compromise at all? And if so, 'he' certainly could have done better with the spine. Almost everyone eventually has a bad back.
Evolution easily explains this. 'Design' by a perfect god does not. With evolution it is obvious what happened.
One of the Great Apes, Homo Sapiens, branched out to walk and stand upright. Since his spine was sufficient to allow him to grow old enough to reproduce and raise children to an age of independence, there has been no need for further evolution of the spine.

What's God's excuse for this debilitating flaw?
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Re: Top 10 Design Flaws in the Human Body

Post #16

Post by Inquirer »

Diogenes wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:03 pm
Inquirer wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:01 pm
Very well so on what basis do you claim that any of the issues raised by the OP are flaws? can you actually prove that any of them are actually flaws?

As a very experienced designer I can tell you that all designs are compromises - bear this in mind as you plan your answer...
Certainly human designers must frequently compromise. Good design is often the product of a great compromise. But, theoretically, we are not dealing with a human designer. The claimed designer here is God. Should God have to compromise at all?
That's a fair question. I don't see how one can avoid "compromise" though if one desires to create an orderly law based physical system. I mean if God created order then he created constraints too, an complete absence of constraints implies no order, no design.
Diogenes wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:03 pm And if so, 'he' certainly could have done better with the spine. Almost everyone eventually has a bad back.
True, but we read that God isn't concerned with our physical lives, to God this is a phase that we pass through, it isn't about the material, the fleshly but the spiritual. So as I mentioned we can't argue about efficacy without knowing the goals.
Diogenes wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:03 pm Evolution easily explains this. 'Design' by a perfect god does not. With evolution it is obvious what happened.
One of the Great Apes, Homo Sapiens, branched out to walk and stand upright. Since his spine was sufficient to allow him to grow old enough to reproduce and raise children to an age of independence, there has been no need for further evolution of the spine.

What's God's excuse for this debilitating flaw?
Consider: (emphasis mine)
As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned [what caused this], this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”

“Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” [Your reasoning is wrong] said Jesus, “but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him.

As long as it is day, we must do the works of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”
So there's your answer, there was a reason and it was not what people assumed.

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Re: Top 10 Design Flaws in the Human Body

Post #17

Post by Diogenes »

Inquirer wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:01 pm
Diogenes wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:03 pm And if so, 'he' certainly could have done better with the spine. Almost everyone eventually has a bad back.
True, but we read that God isn't concerned with our physical lives, to God this is a phase that we pass through, it isn't about the material, the fleshly but the spiritual. So as I mentioned we can't argue about efficacy without knowing the goals.
I do not believe "that God isn't concerned with our physical lives." Jesus was very concerned with how we live here on this Earth, on being kind to each other, with comforting the sick and helping the poor.
But you may have touched upon a terrible flaw with the concept of god and the afterlife; that we are just 'passing through' to the great beyond where real life begins. I submit that is a horrible way to live and a dangerous assumption that completely devalues life itself except as some sort of imagined 'proving ground' for the assumption of some proposed 'heaven.'
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Re: Top 10 Design Flaws in the Human Body

Post #18

Post by Diagoras »

[Replying to Inquirer in post #13]

We seem to be then agreed that the only claim for any ‘design by God’ is purely speculative. Meanwhile, there is a plethora of strong evidence for an evolutionary explanation.

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Re: Top 10 Design Flaws in the Human Body

Post #19

Post by Purple Knight »

I see the spine thing as pretty good evidence we evolved from something on more than two legs.

A lot of speculation on anything, anything at all, includes: "Why is there [this bad thing]?"

Two explanations: 1) It just exists and 2) It is intended

People tend to gravitate toward the second explanation because most things in our lives are engineered for us, combined with the fact that humans are competitive so we often design for ill. But [this bad thing] can be a tree branch or a rock that is just there to hit you in the head or be tripped over until someone moves it.

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Re: Top 10 Design Flaws in the Human Body

Post #20

Post by wannabe »

Diogenes wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:03 pm
Inquirer wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:01 pm
Very well so on what basis do you claim that any of the issues raised by the OP are flaws? can you actually prove that any of them are actually flaws?

As a very experienced designer I can tell you that all designs are compromises - bear this in mind as you plan your answer...
Certainly human designers must frequently compromise. Good design is often the product of a great compromise. But, theoretically, we are not dealing with a human designer. The claimed designer here is God. Should God have to compromise at all? And if so, 'he' certainly could have done better with the spine. Almost everyone eventually has a bad back.
Evolution easily explains this. 'Design' by a perfect god does not. With evolution it is obvious what happened.
One of the Great Apes, Homo Sapiens, branched out to walk and stand upright. Since his spine was sufficient to allow him to grow old enough to reproduce and raise children to an age of independence, there has been no need for further evolution of the spine.

What's God's excuse for this debilitating flaw?
If the bodies flawed design is a result of evolution, then what is its destiny?
What drives evolution?
Does evolution just stop its course of progression?
So what has evolution done to resolve or progress towards a resolve, (regarding the spine). Nothing. So if a flaw in a design isn't a need for further evolution of the spine, what would be?
Why did evolution stop. How long have we been upright and why do we still get back pain. You would think there would be at least a small advance towards solving the problem of back pain,
along the lines of evolution.
But - Nothing, Maybe still evolving? Unlikely!
The body was created , as a throw away, a tool to learn with and then truly evolve into ...?
I think the body is a very good vessel of experience for the sake of preparing us for further understanding.
Unless we just stop learning?
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