What if Adam and Eve Had Resisted...?

[William]

IF Adam and Eve had resisted the temptation to eat the forbidden fruit, would they have been permitted to do so eventually?

[JehovahsWitness]

Have a good day..

You too.








DIVINE OMNISCIENCE




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[William]

To recap then;

It was YHWHs action alone which ensured that death would happen, because the source of sustained life is represented as access to the tree of life, [which Adam and Eve had once had access to], had been sealed off by YWHW because of their disregarding YHWHs advice re the forbidden fruit.

The OPQ has to be answered in the affirmative because - had the couple obeyed YHWH [the forbidden fruit was actually harmless - being a prop anyway] so it would be acceptable/reasonable for YHWH to then permit the eating of said fruit.

In this case, Christianity in general - despite its claims - and the Jehovah's Witness branch specifically [represented by JW] - are obviously not the best devices to use when trying to understand the agenda of YHWH in relation to the purpose of the human form.

As JW commented...

I disagree.

...in reply to my critique, leaving out all reasons as to why JW 'disagrees'.

Since this is a debate setting, to simply leave it at that, it can be regarded that JW has conceded to my critique.

[Too soon?]

[William]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #58]

... Christian belief that before sin entered the world, the whole earth was a paradise. The JW's rest the whole of their beliefs on this assumption ...

Jehovahs Witnesses do not believe before sin entered the world, the whole earth was a paradise. The bible is quite clear on this, God planted the garden* and the Genesis account stipulated its boundaries. When Adam and Eve sinned they were put outside the garden which would not have been possible if the garden was everywhere.

* the word paradise basically means garden.

Good. I am glad that we cleared that up.

We should now be able to agree that the Earth was not the paradise many Christians believe that is was and that YHVH created it that way, from the beginning.

[onewithhim]

IF Adam and Eve had resisted the temptation to eat the forbidden fruit, would they have been permitted to do so eventually?

I don't think so. The fruit would always be there, I think, as a testimony of A&E's love for Jehovah. Their not touching the tree would always be a witness for them that they loved and respected their heavenly Father, to time indefinite.

[William]

IF Adam and Eve had resisted the temptation to eat the forbidden fruit, would they have been permitted to do so eventually?

I don't think so. The fruit would always be there, I think, as a testimony of A&E's love for YHVH. Their not touching the tree would always be a witness for them that they loved and respected YHVH to time indefinite.

So - you think that Adam would have wanted to make some sort of religious icon of the trees fruit, as if this somehow would show YHVH Adam loved and respected YHVH?

That seems a redundant thing to do since, in Adam not listening to any voice but YHVHs, this would have already shown YHVH that Adam loved and respected YHVH.

Q: Is it ever a wise thing to use religious icons for such purposes?

I think it does more to imprint on the eye of the beholder/practitioner, false imagery, even of YHVH.

The fruit was not harmful, and could therefore be eaten, if YHVH told Adam so, once Adam was shown to listen only to the Voice of YHVH.

[onewithhim]

IF Adam and Eve had resisted the temptation to eat the forbidden fruit, would they have been permitted to do so eventually?

I don't think so. The fruit would always be there, I think, as a testimony of A&E's love for YHVH. Their not touching the tree would always be a witness for them that they loved and respected YHVH to time indefinite.

So - you think that Adam would have wanted to make some sort of religious icon of the trees fruit, as if this somehow would show YHVH Adam loved and respected YHVH?

That is just something from your own imagination. You have no support for your idea that Adam would "make some sort of religious icon of the tree's fruit."

[William]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #66]

You have no support for your idea that Adam would "make some sort of religious icon of the tree's fruit."

It was you who suggested such, when you answered my question;

IF Adam and Eve had resisted the temptation to eat the forbidden fruit, would they have been permitted to do so eventually?

Your answer:

The fruit would always be there, I think, as a testimony of A&E's love for YHVH. Their not touching the tree would always be a witness for them that they loved and respected YHVH to time indefinite.

What your answer describes, is the use of icon's in order to be reminders - "testimony of A&E's love for YHVH".

As something that would "always be a witness for them that they loved and respected YHVH to time indefinite."

Q: Why would any personality in communion with YHVH require something [icons] outside of their self to remind them they are in communion with YHVH?

The reason folk resort to religious icons is because they are attempting to gain that communion with YHVH through those mediums.

Since it was you who made the suggestion, I simply showed what your suggestion actually represented.
If you have a problem with the idea that Adam would make a religious icon of The Tree, then it would be best that you drop that as an argument for why - after having resisted the temptation to listen to a voice which wasn't YHVH - they would then be allowed to eat of the trees fruit.

[JehovahsWitness]

WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED TO THE TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND BAD AFTER THE EDENIC TEST, HAD ADAM AND EVE REMAINED FAITHFUL?

I think the honest answer is nobody knows. It is not however unprecedented in scripture for God to command a physical reminder of an event be kept as a memoral to a godly principle.

WOULD THAT NOT BE AN ICON?

Not necessarily. An ICON is defined as

- a person or thing regarded as a representative symbol or as worthy of veneration. Cambridge Dictionary

- a person or thing widely admired especially for having great influence or significance in a particular sphere - Merriam Webster

When God ordered the preservation of physical items as reminders for the Israelites, it was never with a view that the item be venerated or worshipped or that it itself had any mystical powers (religious relic). It would have significance but , as an inanimate object, that influnce would remain limited to its serving as a memory aid of a past event

CONCLUSION : Whether God allowed the tree to remain as a permanent reminder of God's universal souvereighty or not, what the tree represented would remain an eternal truth obedient mankind would forever respect.




JW

Were Adam and Eve being tested?
viewtopic.php?p=1092257#p1092256

Would the prohibition on the forbidden tree have been lifted?
viewtopic.php?p=1092464#p1092464

If the fruit had no intrinsic value why would the prohibition be permanent?
viewtopic.php?p=1092364#p1092364

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FREE WILL , THE TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND BAD and .. . THE ORIGINAL SIN ,

[onewithhim]

[Replying to William in post #67]

I suggested no such thing (as the fruit becoming icons).

[William]

[Replying to William in post #67]

I suggested no such thing (as the fruit becoming icons).

What your answer describes, is the use of icon's in order to be reminders - "testimony of A&E's love for YHVH".

As something that would "always be a witness for them that they loved and respected YHVH to time indefinite."

Q: Why would any personality in communion with YHVH require something [icons] outside of their self to remind them they are in communion with YHVH?

The reason folk resort to religious icons is because they are attempting to gain that communion with YHVH through those mediums.

Since it was you who made the suggestion, I simply showed what your suggestion actually represented.